I shoot 3p 50m and prone 50m. I've been shooting 50m for about 2 years and my scores are about 575-585 in prone and 1100-1125 in 3p.
I train with live fire shooting about 2 times per week and with scatt 1-4 times per week.
I have no chance trying different lots of ammunition because I've to order everything and the shipping gets so expensive. Last year i shoot 15000 rounds but now when I have the scatt I will shoot about half that I think. I practice with SK standard plus for now but my thoughts are should I use better ammunition for training also not just for competitions?
The ammunition I've been thinking about is Eley Team or Match. I would be using the same ammunition for training and competition.
So will it benefit me or is it just unnecessary at my current level?
How good ammunition do I need for training?
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David Levene
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: Ruislip, UK
That is my thought about the less than perfect shoot I really don't know if it's the ammunition or me. It's mostly me I think but it's unnecessary to blame me when it's in fact the ammunition sometimes.
The problem is that I can't test different lots and then buy the best one that I find. First it's the shipping cost and then I don't have acces to any system that I can clamp the rifle in to test shoot the ammunition. So I can only order and hope for the best, I normally order 5000 rounds each time.
I imagine that it's a bigger chance for more expensive ammunition to shoot pretty good than it's for cheaper with lower quality.
The lot of SK standard plus that I use now shoots pretty good I've shoot a couple of 100 points series and shoot 391 in 40 shots twice I think. But about 1 in 125 rounds clicks and that happens in another rifle as well and that makes it unusable in competitions. I don't get so much inner tens with this ammunition compared to a lot of Eley sport(green box) that appears to shoot really good, I've saved 1000 rounds of this Eley sport lot for competition if I don't get any better.
I use higher quality ammunition in competitions that I've bought and that appears to shoot good.
The problem is that I can't test different lots and then buy the best one that I find. First it's the shipping cost and then I don't have acces to any system that I can clamp the rifle in to test shoot the ammunition. So I can only order and hope for the best, I normally order 5000 rounds each time.
I imagine that it's a bigger chance for more expensive ammunition to shoot pretty good than it's for cheaper with lower quality.
The lot of SK standard plus that I use now shoots pretty good I've shoot a couple of 100 points series and shoot 391 in 40 shots twice I think. But about 1 in 125 rounds clicks and that happens in another rifle as well and that makes it unusable in competitions. I don't get so much inner tens with this ammunition compared to a lot of Eley sport(green box) that appears to shoot really good, I've saved 1000 rounds of this Eley sport lot for competition if I don't get any better.
I use higher quality ammunition in competitions that I've bought and that appears to shoot good.
With rifle, I think it is critical to bench test not just the type of ammo, but each lot of ammo. Rifle targets are so small that many gun and ammo combinations will not hold the 10 ring, and some may not even hold the 9 ring. If you shoot a 585, only 1 in 4 shots is a 9. Will your gun and ammo combination, bench tested, shoot better than that? You can't assume any particular manufacturer or model of ammo will be capable. You have to test to be sure. Talk to your distributor, and get single boxes of ammo from lots where they have cases from the same lot. Test, and then order the same lots that you find are good enough for your needs. It sounds like you need more care in selecting your ammo than someone who has trouble holding the 9 ring.
I work with an air rifle shooter that rarely shot 50 when practicing 5 shots on a target. We recently bench tested the gun, and the groups would not hold a ten. Cleaning the gun helped only slightly. Testing other lots of pellets, we found one where two ten shot groups were a single hole that a pellet would not fall through. That shooter is now often shooting 50's and in a practice match shot 19 10's in a row.
In pistol it is easy - almost any decent free pistol with any decent ammo will shoot significantly smaller groups than the 10 ring. You do not have that luxury with rifle. Once you are holding consistently in the 9 ring, I feel it is important to have a gun/ammo combination that holds the 10 ring. World class air rifle shooters capable of shooting a 600 probably need to have a gun that holds 10.8 or better...
I work with an air rifle shooter that rarely shot 50 when practicing 5 shots on a target. We recently bench tested the gun, and the groups would not hold a ten. Cleaning the gun helped only slightly. Testing other lots of pellets, we found one where two ten shot groups were a single hole that a pellet would not fall through. That shooter is now often shooting 50's and in a practice match shot 19 10's in a row.
In pistol it is easy - almost any decent free pistol with any decent ammo will shoot significantly smaller groups than the 10 ring. You do not have that luxury with rifle. Once you are holding consistently in the 9 ring, I feel it is important to have a gun/ammo combination that holds the 10 ring. World class air rifle shooters capable of shooting a 600 probably need to have a gun that holds 10.8 or better...
Yes I know it's important to test lots and that is a problem because I don't have any good way doing that.
I've done some testing using my kneeling roll on a table and supporting the rifle on that but I feel that it can be just shooting error that make some groups bad and not the lot.
It's pretty big money in ordering a bunch of lots and not being able to test them in a way that you can trust.
This summer I may have the oppurtunity to get to a dealer that have a range so I can test different lots of Eley in a good way. But that dealer is 1300km from here and he is the closest one. I'm going that way but it isn't sure he is there when I pass.
I've done some testing using my kneeling roll on a table and supporting the rifle on that but I feel that it can be just shooting error that make some groups bad and not the lot.
It's pretty big money in ordering a bunch of lots and not being able to test them in a way that you can trust.
This summer I may have the oppurtunity to get to a dealer that have a range so I can test different lots of Eley in a good way. But that dealer is 1300km from here and he is the closest one. I'm going that way but it isn't sure he is there when I pass.
The idea of shooting my match ammo for practice makes my wallet hurt. Without looking at the math right now Eley Tenex is 40 cents plus (I am in the US), Match and Team are say 26 and 23 cents per shot respectively.
For practice I shoot Eley Club at about 15 cents per shot. I talked to my supplier and had him send me two bricks (500 rounds) each of a different lot. Even shooting both lots from the shoulder in prone (I too am a 585 shooter) I could see the difference. yeah, I had to put about 100 rounds each down the line before I decided which one worked better in my gun, but with it all laid out on the floor in front of me it was actually quite clear. One I made the decision I ordered a case.
Now, if I was looking for a lot of match ammo I would have tested 3 to 5 lots of Match or Tenex. Even from the shoulder in prone you can tell the difference. If you had a nice rig, in the end you would test your final lots from the shoulder as that is how the rifle and ammo is used in competition.
Good Luck,
'Dude
For practice I shoot Eley Club at about 15 cents per shot. I talked to my supplier and had him send me two bricks (500 rounds) each of a different lot. Even shooting both lots from the shoulder in prone (I too am a 585 shooter) I could see the difference. yeah, I had to put about 100 rounds each down the line before I decided which one worked better in my gun, but with it all laid out on the floor in front of me it was actually quite clear. One I made the decision I ordered a case.
Now, if I was looking for a lot of match ammo I would have tested 3 to 5 lots of Match or Tenex. Even from the shoulder in prone you can tell the difference. If you had a nice rig, in the end you would test your final lots from the shoulder as that is how the rifle and ammo is used in competition.
Good Luck,
'Dude
Back in the day when i shot 50m I used to test everything from the shoulder. Having several lots of ammo and just shooting until I found a winner (was a 590 shooter but could occasionally manage a bit higher). Yes, it's a far from perfect testing procedure but I always ended up with a good one. Even I used SK with good results. I never had problems with bullets misfiring or getting a strange 7 here and there but i know others who did. The trick with that ammo (like with all cheap ammo's) is to batch test and only buy one you completely trust, the difference is so big between good/bad it's almost fascinating. Some barely holds the 7, others shoot a nice round 100 over and over again.
So, you either just buy a few thousand this time and wait until you can go there and test or you take the cost and get several batches and shoulder test them (or maybe a nearby range has a shooting vise?)
Some suppliers will do the ammo testing themselves if you send them your rifle, is that a possibility?
So, you either just buy a few thousand this time and wait until you can go there and test or you take the cost and get several batches and shoulder test them (or maybe a nearby range has a shooting vise?)
Some suppliers will do the ammo testing themselves if you send them your rifle, is that a possibility?
No shooting range here has a shooting vise. I could send the rifle to the supplier but not until in september because I need it for training and competitions.
I think my ammunition will last until I can go to my supplier and test it. But he doesn't know if he's going to be at home that date but we will se when it's closer to that date.
Otherwise I will just order maybe Club or Team and hope for the best and send the rifle down for testing when I have a break from training and competitions in september.
I think my ammunition will last until I can go to my supplier and test it. But he doesn't know if he's going to be at home that date but we will se when it's closer to that date.
Otherwise I will just order maybe Club or Team and hope for the best and send the rifle down for testing when I have a break from training and competitions in september.
Just my thoughts.
You have to test, period. Otherwise you will always have nagging doubts about where the fault lies.
I feel that practice ammo should hold the ten ring, no matter what the cost. Once a shooter passes about 570 prone, you need to be confident that your rifle/ammo will hold the 10. I can see where one would want to save a bit of money on practice ammo, but if it will not hold the 10 you're doing yourself a disservice.
Eley Team/Club and Match are a good pair as well as RWS rifle match and R-50. From my testing, there are no good pairs in the SK line - But for the cost, SK rifle match can be used across the board. It will just barely hold the 10 ring in my rifle. Eley Sport will not hold the 10 ring for me in my match rifle but it will in my CZ silhouette rifle. The Lapua is simply out of my price range, but all I've tested easily holds the 10. The Lapua SSHP ammo (pink box) would hold the 10 and was cost effective, but of course the hollow point makes it forbidden to use in competition
I too am unable to buy lots for testing and then buy additional lots for matches. But I have done pretty extensive testing (43 different types) and have found about a dozen that will consistently hold the 10.
Even 15000 rounds of Eley Sport would set me back about $1000 US. For me it would be well worth the price to invest in - or build- a quality rest. It would pay real dividends in the long run, and give greater peace of mind. I also wish I could afford to shoot 15000 rounds a year!
Good health and good shooting.
You have to test, period. Otherwise you will always have nagging doubts about where the fault lies.
I feel that practice ammo should hold the ten ring, no matter what the cost. Once a shooter passes about 570 prone, you need to be confident that your rifle/ammo will hold the 10. I can see where one would want to save a bit of money on practice ammo, but if it will not hold the 10 you're doing yourself a disservice.
Eley Team/Club and Match are a good pair as well as RWS rifle match and R-50. From my testing, there are no good pairs in the SK line - But for the cost, SK rifle match can be used across the board. It will just barely hold the 10 ring in my rifle. Eley Sport will not hold the 10 ring for me in my match rifle but it will in my CZ silhouette rifle. The Lapua is simply out of my price range, but all I've tested easily holds the 10. The Lapua SSHP ammo (pink box) would hold the 10 and was cost effective, but of course the hollow point makes it forbidden to use in competition
I too am unable to buy lots for testing and then buy additional lots for matches. But I have done pretty extensive testing (43 different types) and have found about a dozen that will consistently hold the 10.
Even 15000 rounds of Eley Sport would set me back about $1000 US. For me it would be well worth the price to invest in - or build- a quality rest. It would pay real dividends in the long run, and give greater peace of mind. I also wish I could afford to shoot 15000 rounds a year!
Good health and good shooting.
This is not rocket science. Buy a vice, find a spot in the woods with a heavy picnic table and start testing.
This will be cheaper than anything else you can do. Start with cheap ammo and work your way up until you find something you like.
Do NOT start with the expensive stuff and work your way down.
This will be cheaper than anything else you can do. Start with cheap ammo and work your way up until you find something you like.
Do NOT start with the expensive stuff and work your way down.
Why can't you test from your shoulder. If you can shoot 585, you should know what is you and what is ammo. I and my parents have always tested from the shoulder and our findings were the same as others found with the same guns clamped down.
When I test, I buy 100 rounds for about a dozen ammo brands, grades, and lots, then shoot groups and see how they perform. What shoots best in you gun shoots best. When you find what shoots best, buy as much as you can, and you can tune it by torquing your bedding screws.
Bottom line, buy some ammo, shoot it, and you'll know what shoots well. Better than going in blind.
When I test, I buy 100 rounds for about a dozen ammo brands, grades, and lots, then shoot groups and see how they perform. What shoots best in you gun shoots best. When you find what shoots best, buy as much as you can, and you can tune it by torquing your bedding screws.
Bottom line, buy some ammo, shoot it, and you'll know what shoots well. Better than going in blind.
Testing from the shoulder is an option but in my opinion it's a rather bad testing method when I'm at such low level. How do I know if it's the ammunition or me if I shot a 20 shot string and have two 9,9 and a 9,7 and in the next 20 shot string with a different batch I get one 9,9 and three 9,8 and one 9,4.
It could be that the second batch was better but I did something that I don't see or feel. Some days the shot calling just won't work it can be some problem in recoil management or just tired eyes.
When I have shoot a couple of 100 rounds in prone with one type of ammunition I would get a feeling if it's pretty good or not, I look mostly on number of inner tens. With the SK standard plus I shoot now it's between 2-6 per 10 shots and with the Eley Sport batch I have a little left of it's between 4-9 per 10 shots. This is of course when I shoot at my best.
The number of 10,0 and 10,1 I get that I see or feel that I made something wrong is also a indicator for me that the ammunition shoot small groups. I get more room for error.
I could have a good or bad day and the results varies with that.
But it is of course better to test from the shoulder than not testing at all. I could order say 300 rounds consisting of 3 batches (100 of each batch) and then shoot them at the same time and try to see if I can notice any difference between them. It will be time consuming because the shipping takes a while and get a little expensive with the shipping but maybe it's the best I can do.
It could be that the second batch was better but I did something that I don't see or feel. Some days the shot calling just won't work it can be some problem in recoil management or just tired eyes.
When I have shoot a couple of 100 rounds in prone with one type of ammunition I would get a feeling if it's pretty good or not, I look mostly on number of inner tens. With the SK standard plus I shoot now it's between 2-6 per 10 shots and with the Eley Sport batch I have a little left of it's between 4-9 per 10 shots. This is of course when I shoot at my best.
The number of 10,0 and 10,1 I get that I see or feel that I made something wrong is also a indicator for me that the ammunition shoot small groups. I get more room for error.
I could have a good or bad day and the results varies with that.
But it is of course better to test from the shoulder than not testing at all. I could order say 300 rounds consisting of 3 batches (100 of each batch) and then shoot them at the same time and try to see if I can notice any difference between them. It will be time consuming because the shipping takes a while and get a little expensive with the shipping but maybe it's the best I can do.