HARDBALL - Doing it right.

ghillieman · Post by **ghillieman** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:18 am

All you distinguished pistol shot badge holders and old timers please share the tips and tricks to shooting CMP Service Pistol matches. What do you think helped you? Thanks in advance.

Misny · Post by **Misny** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:38 am

Having a good gun and ammo was important. Once that was taken care of, I think the thing that helped most was to shoot the gun and ammo a lot, especially in rapid fire. I used to shoot a 900 part of a 2700 in matches with my hardball pistol, besides training regularly. I then shot as many hardball matches as was allowed.

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:46 am

Practice your Rapid Fire. Everything else slows down from there.

john bickar · Post by **john bickar** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:31 pm

Take the dots off of your guns and shoot irons for your 2700s until you leg out.

XLshtur · Post by **XLshtur** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:23 pm

I shot irons in all 3 guns, and Hardball for CF and 45- my recommendation. People were surprised I could shoot 850-860 with HB regulary. Once I got distinguished, I quit bullseye.

john bickar · Post by **john bickar** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:10 am

I wouldn't necessarily recommend shooting all hardball for a 900, unless you're looking forward to carrying your elbow home in a paper bag.

jackh · Post by **jackh** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:28 am

john bickar wrote:I wouldn't necessarily recommend shooting all hardball for a 900, unless you're looking forward to carrying your elbow home in a paper bag.

I survived HB 900s and long practice sessions.

jackh · Post by **jackh** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:30 am

XLshtur wrote:I shot irons in all 3 guns, and Hardball for CF and 45- my recommendation. People were surprised I could shoot 850-860 with HB regulary. Once I got distinguished, I quit bullseye.

"I quit bullseye"

Why?

john bickar · Post by **john bickar** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:10 am

jackh wrote:
john bickar wrote:I wouldn't necessarily recommend shooting all hardball for a 900, unless you're looking forward to carrying your elbow home in a paper bag.
I survived HB 900s

Well, when I got my P100 and Distinguished, I was built more like Florence Henderson than Jim Henderson, so I had to muddle along as best I could.

(Still am, sadly.)

XLshtur · Post by **XLshtur** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:34 pm

Jackh,

My goal was distinguished and P100, I became distinguished and several P100's.

I recently got back into BE, shooting indoor .22, and will continue with that for a long time. New goal is catching many springers, steelheads, and sturgeon on the Columbia River.

marvelshooter · Post by **marvelshooter** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:29 am

Practice enough to know your gun and load. Don't sweat over being able to shoot a particular score. Getting distinguished involves a little bit of luck as well as shooting good. No particular score is required to get leg points - you just have to shoot better than the other non distinguished shooters that day. I have gotten eight points with a 255 and missed the cut with a 265.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:18 am

Points are clearly a reflection of exercising the fundamentals, no luck is involved.

Isabel1130 · Post by **Isabel1130** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:13 am

Orion wrote:Points are clearly a reflection of exercising the fundamentals, no luck is involved.

Yes, and no. It used to be that you could get your distinguished badge with five six point legs which meant that you could go to nothing but local matches and if you were willing to drive far enough to places where there wasn't a lot of competition, you could become distinguished with some fairly low scores. I know some people who have LEG points and are distinguished who have shot consistently in the 220s and 230s to get them.
They changed the rules a few years ago and now you must get at least one eight point LEG to become distinguished. This means that chances are good that you will have to go to one of the bigger matches and shoot fairly well to LEG out. Anything over 250 is a good score with a ball gun. I would feel comfortable taking advice from those pepole.
IMHO Marvelshooter is absolutely correct. If you don't actually enjoy shooting pistol, getting your distinguished is going to become a frustrating experience where you put way too much pressure on yourself and grind your teeth a lot.

XLshtur · Post by **XLshtur** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:35 am

I have noticed BE scores are lower than they were in the 1970's - 1990's. When I legged, cutoff scores were in the mid 270's. A 10 point leg was 280+, shooting 230 grain HB.

Isabel1130 · Post by **Isabel1130** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:08 pm

XLshtur wrote:I have noticed BE scores are lower than they were in the 1970's - 1990's. When I legged, cutoff scores were in the mid 270's. A 10 point leg was 280+, shooting 230 grain HB.

You will still find a lot of matches where you need to shoot in the 270s plus in order to get LEG points but you need to remember that the population of military shooters who shot nothing but iron sights with a lot of free hardball ammo was at least 20 times the number of supported shooters that there are now. This tended to raise the general level of competency with irons especially at the big matches.
However, the records for Presidents Hundred and the records for Leg match scores are all recent ones set with the Beretta.

marvelshooter · Post by **marvelshooter** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:39 pm

Orion wrote:Points are clearly a reflection of exercising the fundamentals, no luck is involved.

The score you shoot IS a direct reflection of applying (or not applying) the fundamentals. If it is good enough or not to get you leg points is another story. Maybe luck is not the best description but is is out of your hands. You pick the three matches you are allowed to shoot in and enter them but you don't know until that day how many non distinguished shooters there will be. Or how they will shoot.

Isabel1130 · Post by **Isabel1130** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:12 pm

A friend told me that he once went to a Regional in a state that will not be named. It was about 400 miles from his home and was quite a drive. He had just made Master class and he won the Regional 2700. At that point he was getting ready for the LEG match (as advertised) and when they found out that he wasn't distinguished yet, they cancelled the LEG match.

RMinUT · Post by **RMinUT** » Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:02 am

ghillieman wrote:All you distinguished pistol shot badge holders and old timers please share the tips and tricks to shooting CMP Service Pistol matches. What do you think helped you? Thanks in advance.

What helped me, a Marvel 22 conversion, dryfire and not looking for crutches, like your compensator idea.

execution of fundamentals are what win at every level and there is nothing better at pointing out who knows fundamentals than a Hardball gun and a EIC match.

Have fun, it's worth the effort.

ghillieman · Post by **ghillieman** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:52 am

Here is an article thay may help someone.

http://www.bullseyepistol.com/rapdfire.htm

lonegunman · Post by **lonegunman** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:40 pm

I had a can of genuine 1960's white box match ball when I started and was worried I'd run out before I legged. I shot an occasional box for practice and this particular ammo only for matches. I practiced with regular GI ball ammo. My plan was to do it the old fashioned way, with a 1911 and full power ammo. I did it in 2004 and was quite proud of myself.

Along the way, I have come up with some theories.

1. The match is won on slow fire and lost on rapid fire.

If you shoot a solid slow fire anywhere from mid 80's on upwards, you have a shot at winning the leg points in most places. All you need is a couple of decent timed and rapid scores.

If you panic or get slack on rapid fire, you can ruin two good scores in a heartbeat. I've saved more than one leg medal by stepping it up on rapid fire. Good trigger control and holding your sights in the right place will save the day.

2. Don't let one bad shot defeat you. Everyone has launched a turd into the 5-ring or worse on one stage or another and panicked or given up. Three 9-shot 90's is still a 270 and tough to beat in most places.

3. Try and enjoy yourself, winning my last leg for points was harder than removing my own tonsils. I kept thinking, "dear God, if I just shoot an 82 on rapid I can WIN!!!!" and then the nerves would kick in and rack me for the next 60 seconds.

When the target turned back after the last shot, it had 5's and 7's and who knows what all over the place. It felt good but looked awful. Calming down and shooting my average got me into the Distinguished ranks.

4. Shoot every leg match you can, I still shoot them and collect the medals for my wall of goodies. When you are coming up, someone else needs the points and if you stink, you help them out. Afterwards, you can enjoy shooting for national ranking, pride and support for fellow shooters.

5. Shoot 50yd slow fire when you practice. If you shoot where there is no 50yd line, find one occasionally. We do not have 50yds at my home range, I have to drive 30 miles to shoot at a different club that has morning bullseye practice on Tuesdays. I'd take half a day off once a month just to shoot shoulder to shoulder with guys at 50yds.

6. Make sure your score card is correct.

This is critical, dot the I's and cross the T's and color in the dots or you can miss out on some points and X's you will really need later. Always check math.

7. When you have even a flicker of doubt, plug or have your close shots plugged. 45 ball holes, look like 9mm holes and even if you cannot see a lead/powder ring, they might make the next scoring ring when plugged. Don't leave points on the table.

You do not have to be mean about it, you will know many of the guys who will score you anyway. Just don't leave anything to chance if you want those points.

An "X" can mean the difference between leg points and leather.

These days, you can reload softball ammo and shoot like a sissy all the way to the end. If your gun works and is accurate with softball, reload and shoot softball. Some soft loads fall off in accuracy at 50yds, shooting regular 50yd slow fire will show you what your reloads do on the long line.

Good luck.

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