I support Russ's comments on shooting techniques
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2650 Plus
I support Russ's comments on shooting techniques
In spite of the unknown shooters attempts to denegrate him and what he is trying to get across to less skillful shooters' I have yet to find anything he has published that I can disagre with. I would recommend that every one forget the subconcious trigger release and work to develope a smooth steadily increasing pressure that once started ' continues until the shot is fired. Next step is to focus on the front sight and direct your total mental concentration to perfecting sight allignment until after the shot is fired. Pay attention to his comment about the mind being unable to think about more than one thing at a time. Concentration on sight allignment prevents you from thinking about the trigger and is the closest you will ever come to a subconcious release of the shot. In my opinion , the search for a subconcious shot releas is simoly a search for the subconcious jerk and will not produce the results you desire. Good Shooting Bill Horton
Bill,
As the brain can only handle one conscious thought at a time, which is more important? Thinking about the trigger and a continuous smooth operation, or concentrating on sight alignment?
As a long time rifle shooter/coach I can tell you that the automatic trigger release is possible, but probably due to the stability of the hold using two hands and lots of assistive clothing.
I've switched to focus on the trigger for pistol shooting (for myself and athletes I'm coaching) with better results that trying for the automatic trigger operation. More of letting the sight alignment become sub-conscious.
Your thoughts?
As the brain can only handle one conscious thought at a time, which is more important? Thinking about the trigger and a continuous smooth operation, or concentrating on sight alignment?
As a long time rifle shooter/coach I can tell you that the automatic trigger release is possible, but probably due to the stability of the hold using two hands and lots of assistive clothing.
I've switched to focus on the trigger for pistol shooting (for myself and athletes I'm coaching) with better results that trying for the automatic trigger operation. More of letting the sight alignment become sub-conscious.
Your thoughts?
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2650 Plus
Post Subject
Mentally concentrating on perfectig sight allignment is partially responsible for allowing the start of steadilly increasing pressure to continue uninterupted until the shot is fired. At least thats how it works for me. If [and I believe it is] the mind has difficulty thinking of more than one thing at a time, I prefere to be thinking of sighte and maintaining my focus on the front sight and allowing the trigger f inger to make irs simple contraction without interference . If you are convinced thinking of controling the movement of the finger and leaving the issue of sight allignment to the subconcious , I would suggest increasing the time spent lookng at pictures of properly alligned sights to insure that you and your shooters subconcious really has a clear understanding of what you want to see. If It works!!! Good Shooting Bill Horton
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2650 Plus
As Posted
I have finally found a position by Russ hat I don't support It dealt with the idea of learning from your mistakes. I support a more effective approach. Learn from your sucess , learn how to repeat sucess,, study only your best shot delivery, There are at least a myrid mistakes you can make in your shot dilivery and only a few steps to a perfect dilivery. Learn to shoot tens my friends . And pay closs attention to every thing Gunny Zins is trying to tell you. Good Shooting Bill Horton
"he is trying to get across to less skillful shooters"
I do not talk about “less skillful shooters"
I'm talking about particular one who did 166 posts on this forum.... sharing "something which can cause additional problems".
At certain position is better listen then talk too much.
Your assumption of my original statement is incorrect. I never told that someone can not benefit from own mistakes, but guided help is better anyway.
Bill it is not necessary to use magnifying glass to look for any RUSS's mistakes, I ‘m here for the same reason as many (not all) and my reason is to help.
If someone will control typing speed and start thinking before he will post anything it will be more beneficial to this source.
Thank you
Russ
Bill, if you were OK with my point of view for long period of time, is it not better to ask me additional questions about my position of unclear statement, before you will advance with your own conclusion.
I do not talk about “less skillful shooters"
I'm talking about particular one who did 166 posts on this forum.... sharing "something which can cause additional problems".
At certain position is better listen then talk too much.
Your assumption of my original statement is incorrect. I never told that someone can not benefit from own mistakes, but guided help is better anyway.
Bill it is not necessary to use magnifying glass to look for any RUSS's mistakes, I ‘m here for the same reason as many (not all) and my reason is to help.
If someone will control typing speed and start thinking before he will post anything it will be more beneficial to this source.
Thank you
Russ
Bill, if you were OK with my point of view for long period of time, is it not better to ask me additional questions about my position of unclear statement, before you will advance with your own conclusion.
I competed with Matt over few years. His average competitive score performance was 565-575AP.
He submitted only 112 posts for all those years.
Matt
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Total Posts: 112
Location: Essexville, Michigan USA
http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php ... &highlight
I can continue this list...
I still wonder: Who is talking here? About what? And for what Intention?
He submitted only 112 posts for all those years.
Matt
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Total Posts: 112
Location: Essexville, Michigan USA
http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php ... &highlight
I can continue this list...
I still wonder: Who is talking here? About what? And for what Intention?
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Jack Milchanowski
- Posts: 206
- Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:35 am
- Location: In the woods of Sunset, Texas, U.S.
- Contact:
Russ,
I do have a question for you and I am asking for your help. You wrote on 21 Aug 2011 on your blog the following: "Mistakes can be related to your shots of eight or lower. After each bad shot, you have to sit down, take your hand out of your grip, think about the causes of this bad shot, and put it in writing based on the six fundamentals which we have described earlier.
When you will see a certain pattern of the majority of your mistakes, you can create an approach to eliminate this group of bad shots."
I have always tried to remain positive with all that I do including my shooting. I keep a journal of my training/matches and try to only write positive accomplishments in it. I would think that it is better to write about how you shot great shots to reinforce them instead of writing something negative and how I shot an 8. Following Lanny Bassham's training if I shoot a ten I tell myself "Great". If I shoot a 9 I will say "O.K." If I shoot something lower in value I say "Needs Work". If "O.K." or "Needs Work" I review how to perform the shot better and then I let it go.
For someone who is not consistently shooting 565-570 should I change writing down only positive remarks and do as you suggest-putting the pistol down and writing down why I think it was a bad shot (usually loosing focus on front sight)?
Can you help me with this question please?
Jack
I do have a question for you and I am asking for your help. You wrote on 21 Aug 2011 on your blog the following: "Mistakes can be related to your shots of eight or lower. After each bad shot, you have to sit down, take your hand out of your grip, think about the causes of this bad shot, and put it in writing based on the six fundamentals which we have described earlier.
When you will see a certain pattern of the majority of your mistakes, you can create an approach to eliminate this group of bad shots."
I have always tried to remain positive with all that I do including my shooting. I keep a journal of my training/matches and try to only write positive accomplishments in it. I would think that it is better to write about how you shot great shots to reinforce them instead of writing something negative and how I shot an 8. Following Lanny Bassham's training if I shoot a ten I tell myself "Great". If I shoot a 9 I will say "O.K." If I shoot something lower in value I say "Needs Work". If "O.K." or "Needs Work" I review how to perform the shot better and then I let it go.
For someone who is not consistently shooting 565-570 should I change writing down only positive remarks and do as you suggest-putting the pistol down and writing down why I think it was a bad shot (usually loosing focus on front sight)?
Can you help me with this question please?
Jack
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2650 Plus
Post Subject
Russ, my post title still remains valid, as I expected you to defend the positive approach to shot delivery as that seems to be the thrust of your posts.Reading your comment about learning from your mistakes, you seem to be only agreeing that the comment was enlightning and no more than that I was one of the lucky shootes that early on had a competent coach. Later ,I suffered through a series of coaches that were limited to police the brass and score targets in the team matches but were of little value beyond that. Let me refer you to Bryan Zins writings and comments, as he wastes no time on coaching phylosphy but deals with how you deliver the perfect shot the platform that supports the shot and the approach to the competition. Best wishes fo your sucessful coaching efforts. How soon do you expect to produce a world or Olympic medal winner? Good Luck and Good Shooting Bill Horton
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john bickar
- Posts: 618
- Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 3:58 am
- Location: Corner of Walk & Don't Walk
john bickar
Joined: 05 May 2004
Only Posts: 140
;)
John it will be nice if you will start to post more often on TT.
Joined: 05 May 2004
Only Posts: 140
;)
John it will be nice if you will start to post more often on TT.
Last edited by Russ on Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
To: Bill Horton
Sorry, I have no clue about you background. You made impression to me as a coach.
Russ
Sorry, I have no clue about you background. You made impression to me as a coach.
Russ
Last edited by Russ on Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Jack Milchanowski
- Posts: 206
- Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:35 am
- Location: In the woods of Sunset, Texas, U.S.
- Contact:
"I would think that it is better to write about how you shot great shots to reinforce them instead of writing something negative and how I shot an 8."
“Stay positive or not negative” are emotional values. If I can see your actual target and ask you few questions, you will recognize issue of your actual “8” related to your shot execution (technical part of your performance). Your improvement at emotional level will not affect your technical issues until you will look over your shot plan at this level.
"Following Lanny Bassham's training" I can assume you are talking about psychological or mental performance. It is OK to use this model as far it is working for you, if it is not you can use different one. My mental game based on three parts. First one:” Perfect single shot development process”.
Second, Advance level: “Development psychological stability during the match.” (Basically it is how to match your practice score with competitive performance”)
Third part: “Master class” ( How to achieve desired level of performance ) How to perform above your regular score performance.
"For someone who is not consistently shooting 565-570 should I ...."
For someone who is not consistently shooting 565-570 …. It is commitment issue. Not issue related of chosen pistol brand, not too much psychology there. You must know what to do to deliver “95” six times. This is chapter one (Perfect single shot development process).
“Stay positive or not negative” are emotional values. If I can see your actual target and ask you few questions, you will recognize issue of your actual “8” related to your shot execution (technical part of your performance). Your improvement at emotional level will not affect your technical issues until you will look over your shot plan at this level.
"Following Lanny Bassham's training" I can assume you are talking about psychological or mental performance. It is OK to use this model as far it is working for you, if it is not you can use different one. My mental game based on three parts. First one:” Perfect single shot development process”.
Second, Advance level: “Development psychological stability during the match.” (Basically it is how to match your practice score with competitive performance”)
Third part: “Master class” ( How to achieve desired level of performance ) How to perform above your regular score performance.
"For someone who is not consistently shooting 565-570 should I ...."
For someone who is not consistently shooting 565-570 …. It is commitment issue. Not issue related of chosen pistol brand, not too much psychology there. You must know what to do to deliver “95” six times. This is chapter one (Perfect single shot development process).
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Jack Milchanowski
- Posts: 206
- Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:35 am
- Location: In the woods of Sunset, Texas, U.S.
- Contact:
John:
Thanks for weighing in about "average". (Russ, that comment was a play on words and content, not a comment one the average score number). As we know, consistently exceeding our average is the only way to improve.
And most of the time, improvement is simply not shooting that shot that's below "average". But on the other hand, since we're now counting the number of posts a poster has made, maybe this doesn't count either......
Cecil (don't know how may posts) Rhodes
Thanks for weighing in about "average". (Russ, that comment was a play on words and content, not a comment one the average score number). As we know, consistently exceeding our average is the only way to improve.
And most of the time, improvement is simply not shooting that shot that's below "average". But on the other hand, since we're now counting the number of posts a poster has made, maybe this doesn't count either......
Cecil (don't know how may posts) Rhodes
"improvement is simply not shooting that shot that's below"
You are getting close to say: “abort the shot”
Do you have a tool to analyze the information prior “abort the shot” with goal to improve your average performance?
"As we know" is a problem. "As we know" comes from reading....
Exceptional performance comes from exclusion of common rules, and attention to details!
You are getting close to say: “abort the shot”
Do you have a tool to analyze the information prior “abort the shot” with goal to improve your average performance?
"As we know" is a problem. "As we know" comes from reading....
Exceptional performance comes from exclusion of common rules, and attention to details!
Russ: Like Bill, I find little to fault in your comments. But each of us finds our own way, sometimes forced to by resources and circumstances. Language and viewpoints are sometimes barriers to understanding what each is trying to communicate. I'll listen to you, and I'll listen to John (and may others) to see what I can capture with enough understanding to use.
My tools? Brain and desire.
My information? Every sensory input, visualization and memory.
"As we know" exceeding the average consistently is the measure of improvement. If I shoot my average consistently, I have reached a plateau and will need to change or improve something to continue to improve. My average may slip as I learn the new things, but either it will improve or plateau again. And so I continue to find something else to train on.
Nobody's shot a perfect 2700 match score yet. But that's not reason not to continue to try!
Cecil
My tools? Brain and desire.
My information? Every sensory input, visualization and memory.
"As we know" exceeding the average consistently is the measure of improvement. If I shoot my average consistently, I have reached a plateau and will need to change or improve something to continue to improve. My average may slip as I learn the new things, but either it will improve or plateau again. And so I continue to find something else to train on.
Nobody's shot a perfect 2700 match score yet. But that's not reason not to continue to try!
Cecil