Urgent Question

silentfury214 · Post by **silentfury214** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:35 am

Hello to all,

I am going to a smallbore prone match tomorrow and just found out that it is a 50-yard and 100-yard match. I have never shot my rifle out past 50ft and I was wondering what some gross sight adjustments are for the increased distance. I shoot Eley Match Ammo. Also, I have a set of the Anschutz Extra tall (20mm) risers on the rifle. Does anyone know how much it will effect my poi?

Thank you so much!

hansi · Post by **hansi** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:20 pm

Well the good news is that we all shoot because we enjoy it,dont forget that,the bad news,well i wont go into that but it would help alot to know what type of sights you are using are they 10 klick or 20 ,what type .What length is your barrel.What types of targets will you be shooting.Give as much info as you know. kind regards

TPJones · Post by **TPJones** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:26 pm

Difficult to say without knowing sight height and actual velocity from your barrel, and BC.

AS A GUESS, I'd say you'll be 1.5" high at 50 and about 5" low at 100.

My match ammo is about 1070 out of my barrel and I need 48 clicks to move from 100 to 50. (1.85" sight over bore)

There are several programs on line that will give you an approximation - here's one

http://www.handloads.com/calc/

Some BC's for various .22 are here-

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/sh ... hp?t=57007

EDIT: Here's another I had bookmarked. Not as useful since it uses Winchester BC's

http://ballisticscalculator.winchester.com/

silentfury214 · Post by **silentfury214** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:30 pm

Oh wow, i totally spaced on that info >.<. I am using Walther Expert Match 20 click sights. I am shooting a standard Anschutz 1907 in an aluminum stock, it is the stock barrel, so i am unaware of the length. I am shooting a23, a25, and a26 targets.

silentfury214 · Post by **silentfury214** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:32 pm

TPJones, are you saying 1.5 inches high compared to 50 ft? and 5 inches low from 50 feet, or 50 yards?

EDIT: Also, i meant to say that I am taking my sight risers off (20mm) and i dont know how much that will affect my poi. the middle of the ring is approximately 1 inch from center bore. I am really new to smallbore and i don't have a way to shoot past 50 feet to know what the differences are, so thank you for putting up with me.

TPJones · Post by **TPJones** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:38 pm

Yes, compared to 50 feet (~17 yards), and yes, 50 yds and 100 yds. Again, just a guess. I referenced everything to a 17 yard sight in distance.

Sorry for the vague answer, I knew what I meant though. :-)

Tim S · Post by **Tim S** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:45 pm

In my experience using sight raisers makes very little difference for the drop between 50 yards and 100. This is about 7 MOA, or 4 -4 1/2 complete turns UP with most German rearsights.

When I changed form 25 yards to 50metres, I add about 20 click/1 complete turn UP. I suspect you may need a little less going from 50ft.

Shooting at 50 and 100 is good fun. You will need more sighters than at 50ft. Your group will be bigger, and you don't have a zero, so it's worthwhile taking time to zero properly.

Tim S

silentfury214 · Post by **silentfury214** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:47 pm

wait, the difference of sight risers to no sight risers is 80-90 clicks up?!

jhmartin · Post by **jhmartin** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:52 pm

Risers are no big deal.
From a 50ft zero you will most probably be in the black at 50m
At 100m ... On those targets you'll need to go up about 3.5 to 4 turns.

Go up 3.5 and you should be in and use your sighters to finish it up.
(After reading Tim S, I'm reminded that my shooters use ext tubes, so start at 4 with a stock bbl)

Anyway, remember the rules if necessary, on your first shot if you're out of the sighter area, call the RO over and have them watch till you get it in the sighter target and finish up that process then on to records
(Remember you don't need an X on your 1st sighter - grin)
Don't stress --- be happy & shoot well!

Is it 100 or 120 shot? Bring lots of water to hydrate ... a 120 shot match will have you on your belly for 3-4 hours.

And then remember the Journal .... mark that page well ... or do what I do with my shooters .... I just slap some blue painters tape on the stock & write it down there (Sometimes the young-uns are a bit too lazy to get up & dig the journal out of their bags .... easier to keep that on the rifle too)

{Are you going to switch between Iron & Scope? My recommendation for a first match would be to shoot it all iron sights}

silentfury214 · Post by **silentfury214** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:01 pm

It is a 120 shot match, and it looks like it will be extremely windy >.< (15-20 mph). I have never shot outdoors before, so this will be good experience. and i will be turning the sights in the direction of the T because i will be 3-4 revolutions low from 50-100? and, yes this will all be iron sights.

jhmartin · Post by **jhmartin** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:22 pm

Yup ... you want to move the shots up

Good Shooting! We have our 120 prone tomorrow as well and are expecting the same sort of winds, but starting at about 25°F and maybe getting to 40.

This is a great opportunity to see how much wind effects your shots. A new learning experience. I know it sounds trite, but try to distinguish patterns and shoot in those same patterns .... you might not get complete lulls.

As Tim S stated ... you'll probably shoot more sighters than at an indoor 50ft session. Have 5 (maybe 6) boxes available.

Make sure you have your own timer .... NRA timeframes on the stages

The good news is that the NRA Conventional targets are much easier than the metric targets ... you'll have a blast!
(Unless you've shot at them before your first thought will be "THAT'S the X RING?")

hansi · Post by **hansi** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:32 pm

I have the same rifle as you.Your barrel length is 660 mm.I only shoot at 50 meters so for feet use TPJones formula to elevation.Once you are close know that each klick with the 20 klick walther will be roughly 1.5mm or half a bullet diameter on quality paper.I assume you will start off with 50 yards and will indeed be klicking like a madman to get it up from 17 yrds.

TPJones · Post by **TPJones** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:34 pm

Well, it looks like we got you on paper for 50 & 100 yards.

The main thing now is to learn and enjoy. We all want to shoot our best, but I treated my first year as a learning experience. Believe me I learned a lot!

As stated, write your come-ups in your journal. The difference between the A-23 and A-26 will be minimal. I know it will be anathema to many of the shooters here, but at my first match I didn't even bother changing my sight settings between the two, the butterflies in my stomach were turning somersaults! I had a small plastic sleeve taped to my stock the first year or so. I made (and updated) a small card with all my sight information (F/R iris, click info, sling setting, hand stop,etc) that I could easily take out and change as needed.

Try to spend some time watching the shooters in the other relays as well, you can pick up a lot that way.

Best of Luck!

jhmartin · Post by **jhmartin** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:40 pm

Hey, one more thing.

Here on our range with that much (normal for us) wind, we have sand in the air too.
Keep your bolt forward as much as possible.
Take something to wrap/lay-over your rifle in between relays/stages.
Don't let it just lay on the mat and collect sand. Have a ECI with a long flag so the RO knows your rifle is safe while you are up from it.

(shooting sand down your bbl is bad form)

jhmartin · Post by **jhmartin** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:50 pm

Fury .... did you all shoot today?

Our match was shortened after 4 stages.
We started setup up in 17°F

Stage 1 (50yd): 19°F with 5mph wind from North
Stage 2 (50yd): 23°F with 15mph from NW
Stage 3(100yd): 28° with 25mph from NE ... knocking 50m stands down
Stage 4(100yd): 34 with 35mph from E then W then E .... (ripping targets off)
Had to send kids chasing them ... thank goodness for cactus
Decided that was enough.

I'm not sure our kids felt like "anytime you're pulling the trigger you're having fun". They were piling into the cars w full heat on after they finished their stages ... kinda had to drag 'em out to change their targets.

silentfury214 · Post by **silentfury214** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:54 pm

actually the horrible storms that blew through tennessee made the match director cancel the match.

jhmartin · Post by **jhmartin** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:06 pm

Yeah , thought that might happen.
Hope you and your family are OK .... you all have had a trial.

silentfury214 · Post by **silentfury214** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:28 pm

thankfully, we are fine, but the ranges were almost hit.

RossM · Post by **RossM** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:02 pm

For those who might be interested in wind shooting :-)

Levergun59 · Post by **Levergun59** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:18 am

Your 50 yard zero from 50 feet will just need fine tuning. Add 6 minutes for 100 yards. Have you tried Lapua Scoremax? It fires a 48gn bullet that is a little more wind resistant than your Eley 40gn bullet. Hope this helps.
Chris