Pellet ricochet

[clint1080]

What conditions (to avoid) would allow a .177 match pellet to ricochet back to the 10m shooting line?

[sbrmike]

low powered shot are the richochets

We shoot at targets hung on cardboard with 16 gauge steel backstop.

Some people use loosely hanging canvas or carpet as a backstop as well.

[Spencer]

Usually a combination of two factors - the pellet hits the backstop instead of the target/pellet trap + the backstop material is not suitable.

Some backstop materials are worse than others.
Any hard material will cause a riccochet if the angle is right (irrespective of velocity) and an accidental discharge while the gun is other than directly downrange can happen.
As stated above, lower velocities can come back irrespective of the angle, specially if the pellet material is a bit hard.

Moral of the story - wear eye protection when on a 10m range.

[william]

If it bounces back toward the line it's almost assuredly a low velocity shot. Scanning across my club's line on a Monday night you'll see an Izh46m, 2 Steyr LP10s, 2 Pardini K2s, a SAM M10 (recently sold) and a Daisy 747. Only the Daisy causes bounce backs. The others' pellets all flatten on impact and drop straight down.

[Freepistol]

I used chipboard as a target holder when I first started shooting AP, thinking the pellets would cut a hole. That was a very dumb idea.

[Spencer]

If it bounces back toward the line it's almost assuredly a low velocity shot. Scanning across my club's line on a Monday night you'll see an Izh46m, 2 Steyr LP10s, 2 Pardini K2s, a SAM M10 (recently sold) and a Daisy 747. Only the Daisy causes bounce backs. The others' pellets all flatten on impact and drop straight down.

the wrong material, or badly mounted (e.g. light steel sheet with an air gap behind it) can give bounce-back, even at 450-500fps.

I used chipboard as a target holder when I first started shooting AP, thinking the pellets would cut a hole. That was a very dumb idea.

but you can inspect any pellets that miss the trap at close range...
melamine coated board (e.g. kitchen cupboard doors) can be just as bad.

[GCSInc]

Clint,

Give me the context of your question. Lot's of the info presented here may be technically true, but not applicable to your situation. I'll try to help you, but I need more info...

Pellets "generally" don't ricochet back towards the firing line unless they impact something very soft at low velocity, which prevents the pellet from flattening out. They may deviate in course, but not generally 180 degrees.

Roy McClain
(678) 772-8185 cell

[clint1080]

Good answers here, thanks. Having no experience, I wondered if this was a type of danger for someone shooting at home that might not have been easily preventable by simple foresight and caution. I understand that greater safety concerns exist. Is below the target of greater concern than above? Perhaps some particular item/material is notorious for causing ricochets?

Spencer-"any hard material"
GCSInc -"something very soft"

[Spencer]

Good answers here, thanks. Having no experience, I wondered if this was a type of danger for someone shooting at home that might not have been easily preventable by simple foresight and caution. I understand that greater safety concerns exist. Is below the target of greater concern than above? Perhaps some particular item/material is notorious for causing ricochets?

Spencer-"any hard material"
GCSInc -"something very soft"

- not that I would admit to it, but kitchen cupboards might give rise to quite a lump on a forehead...
- yet to observe any significant (more than a few feet) from hanging soft furnishing materials

[sbrmike]

Yes improper backstop material is definitely a concern.

Flat sheet steel of at least 16 gauge with at least 3/8" plywood tight against the back of the steel is a good back stop. 14 ga backed with 1/2" ply is better yet but much heavier. Have 2x2's has framing on the front and attach corrugated cardboard to that for the target hanging surface.

I have seen and shot on many ranges that have the paper targets suspended by a single clip, some either weighted by another clip on the botttom, or some framed with rigid clips top and bottom. The backer material was either a loosely hanging canvas curtain or loosely hanging carpet places 10feet or more behind the target. These style backers must be hanging loose with the bottom and sides free. NOTE: If tight or not free hanging the pellets will pass through.

Unfinished wood especially pine does not ricochet unless the pellet is under powered. Other materials than I have listed are probably unsuitable as backstop/frame material, i.e. formica, etc.

BB guns are a totally different animal. The hanging curtains will work as a backstop, but you really should hang the target on a cardboard box loosely filled with stacked newspaper etc in front of the hanging curtain/carpet, which is your secondary back stop.

[RandomShotz]

I use a Marksman pellet trap that is all thin gauge steel but the backstop is at a 45 degree downward angle which effectively knocks the pellets down into the base of the trap. Occasionally a pellet will bounce back out but only travels a couple of feet at most. The down side may be that the the target itself has no backing so cheap targets tend to give ragged holes, but that is not really a problem for practice. I recently bought a second one off of eBay for a friend for under $30 with shipping.

[Freepistol]

I use a Marksman pellet trap that is all thin gauge steel but the backstop is at a 45 degree downward angle which effectively knocks the pellets down into the base of the trap. Occasionally a pellet will bounce back out but only travels a couple of feet at most. The down side may be that the the target itself has no backing so cheap targets tend to give ragged holes, but that is not really a problem for practice. I recently bought a second one off of eBay for a friend for under $30 with shipping.

I also use a trap, however, I put cardboard in front of the trap to help keep dust down and to have someplace to attach my target. I have the trap setting in a plastic pan so most dust and lead pieces stay in the pan. I shoot lots of rounds into each target. I can tell where the new holes are because I move the target so there are no holes in the cardboard backing aligned with the previous holes. Black works best because after 15-20 rounds, the black tends to look less black if the brown shows through a big hole. I started shooting an unknown number of rounds into each target on my 50m range. I shoot there until I can no longer tell where the last round went. I don't try to determine my score, I only evaluate my technique, although if I shoot several 7s, I know my score is also poor.

[TerryKuz]

I had the skirt of the pellet split /fracture off and come back when I shot into a solid board. I now shoot into a box of rags with a magazine backing. After a year or so I shoot through it, and I just stuff some fresh rags into the holes and I am good for another season. I generally empty it after a sleeve or two of pellets and start with a fresh box. I take the lead with the paper rags stuff to a bullet caster and he burns off the paper and casts bullets. Some guys like to shoot into a electrical box with plumbers putty (duct seal) as an absorber. I thought I might try it, but I like to recycle the lead.

[GCSInc]

The Ole Mill Range – Target Holders w/Pellet Stops
These stands were designed for the 3 x 20 Air Rifle event. Six targets may be hung at one time. With that as our starting place, we found that you could also shoot Air Pistol as well as both Sporter and Precision Air Gun events on them. We have even had success with BB, but that’s another matter for another day.
The basic materials list would include –
#8 Hex Head Self Tapping Screws, 10 – 20 per stand, depending on your preference.
5-foot lengths of 2 inch, schedule 40 PVC Pipe. It’s usually easier to get a 10 foot section and cut it in half. You’ll need 16 feet (each leg is 1 foot long, with a 20 inch piece across the back, on the ground) of 2 inch PVC per target stand.
I use two 90-degree elbows across the back to tighten the whole thing up, with the 20-inch connector across the back on the ground. The two “T”s are straight, and should not be anything else, such as clean outs, or “Y”s. This is the strength of your stand. You can put the connector piece in the front or back it make little difference.
When you get the stand together, you may want to use up to 6 of the #8 Hex Head Self Tapping Screws to hold the PVC together in the elbows and “T”s. I chose to use PVC Cement on the legs into the “T”s and allow for the 5 foot sides and the 20 inch back cross to be removed for storage / transportation. It all folds into a very small package. I like the yellow pressure caps in the front legs to dress the project up a bit. The yellow pressure caps really don’t have a function other than esthetics. I added 4 sheet rock screws to the leg bottoms, outer edges, for leveling. This feature, is seldom used, but its there if we need it.
Galvanized 16-gage sheet steel. The top piece is 26 ¾ x 16, and the bottom is 26 ¾ x 30. I can’t emphases this enough; don’t use anything except Galvanized sheet steel. Anything else will rust and you’ll be very unhappy with the mess it will cause. If you want full coverage on the back of the stand, either go full coverage with the sheet steel (this raises the price significantly) or add ¾ inch plywood between the sheet steel in the center and on the bottom if you think you need that much protection. We’ve been using this slightly open design for about 8 years and it’s been fine for us. You will want to pre drill the holes in the sheet steel (4 hole in the top, and 6 in the bottom) along the outer edge (We went with about 3/8 from the edges) and that can be a separate operation while you’re cutting the PVC. Plan on using a spring loaded center punch and breaking several drill bits. We made a jig to hold everything in place, but we were building 52 stands. For a smaller number, I might just lay two 2x4s on a table and drill there.
If you do build the jig, the stands will be uniform, and the process goes very fast.
NOTE – This will save you lots of time and aggravation.
Cutting the slot in the PVC for the cardboard was the missing link in this whole process. We went through about a dozen trial and error stands before we figured this one out. When you cut (Lengthwise) PVC, it contracts or shrinks. When you get ready to cut your side pieces, I recommend using a table saw with a fence, and either two blades, (side by side), or a dado to cut the slot ¼ of an inch. You can make a 2 x 4 guide and screw it (Three screws seemed to work fine) to the PVC so that it holds is all slides evenly and straight (A crooked cut, means throw that side away and start over…). Most PVC Pipe has lettering on it and surprisingly it’s straight enough to use as a guide. Here’s the magic of the whole operation. Stop, read this then read it again! Do not cut the PVC side pieces all the way from end to end. Put a stop mark 6 inches from the bottom, or better yet, put a mechanical stop on your table saw so that the side only goes through 4 ½ feet. That along with the ¼ inch cut will allow the PVC to hold the cardboard firmly, but not too tight. If you cut completely from end to end, throw that side away…
A word on acquiring materials. Cost will vary from location to location as well as with your supporters. We paid for some of our Galvanized Sheet steel and got some donated. Over the course of a couple of years, as we grew, the price of 16 gage Galvanized Sheet Steel tripled in price. That’s one of the factors in the dimensions we used. We cut as many pieces as we could out of a large sheet. Sheet Metal prices fluctuate; check prices in your local area before you lock yourself into the amount of metal you are going to use. PVC Pipe and the Elbows and “T”s were mostly given to us by a friendly Plumbing Supply and Local Plumber. Free is hard to beat. We did go to Lowe’s and Home Depot for a few odds and ends and they would give us a very small discount (about 10% as I recall) , but that was it. Even if you pay cost to a Local Plumbing Supply, it’s about half of what’s marked at the big Home Care Stores. Just depends on your budget and number of stands you’re building. Don’t forget to mark your Target Heights per the Rule Book. You’ll note the black center marks in the photos. Center the two Sighter Bulls on the black marks and you should be legal. We also use small metal rods to hang replaceable cardboard. We attach the Targets to the Cardboard with Bulldog Clips and it’s very secure, Flat, and easy and quick to hang and remove targets. The more stands you have, the more this time savings will mean to you.
5.5.4 Target Heights
Target holders on the range must facilitate the placement of the targets at the correct height. Correct target heights, when measured from the level of the firing point to the center of the target are:
Prone position 0.5 meters (19.7 in.) (± 10 cm. or 4 in.)
Standing position 1.4 meter (55 in.) (± 5 cm. or 2 in.)
Kneeling position 0.8 meters (31.5 in.) (± 10 cm. or 4 in.)
Roy McClain
EODTNT1@aol.com
(678) 772-8185 cell
www.OleMillRangeCTC.com – Griffin GA

[waxman]

I've hung 1/8" vinyl in the back of the pellet trap to insure "None Shall Pass". Hung loose, they absorb pellet energy and pellets drop without bounce.
This is the same material used on loading docks to keep the weather out.

[raymond Odle]

Just another observation.

Years back before we had better advise, our first night as a club had a target hung incorrectly with the pine frame behind it. Pellets came flying back into the safety glasses.

[MauserP08]

Roy, can you post pictures of your stands please. I think this might help out a few folks that are looking to build some stands. Thanks.
Sid.

[sbrmike]

Here are our frames. 2x4 construction with dado slots for the cardboard, 14 ga steel plates; not solid, there is no steel where you see red paint-top, bottom, an number area, with 1/2 inch plywood full back. These are Leo Lujan's design. The plans used to be available way back when, before the 3-P Air Council was formed.




ETA: This was a staged pic. The targets are in the Kneeling position. This taken before the kneeling prep period. We made 20 of these for $500.00 back in the mid 1990's. They have been shot on and loaned out and still kicking. The cardboard usually lasts half a season.

[robf]

at my 25yd indoor range it's low powered shots (sub 12) that cause a problem if they hit wood used on the edge of steel baffles.

Higher velocities are fine on the same surface.

Rubber and plastic can be problematic as well.

Angled steel is the only consistent solution.

[GCSInc]

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