Do you accurize you pistol on bench vice/rest ?

seamaster · Post by **seamaster** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:04 pm

Please explain to me why I can't accurize my air pistol on bench?

I adjusted my LP10 on bench vice with proper sub-six alignment. Pistol shot one hole grouping from bench vice dead center. But when I tried it out standing, the grouping is very off center, even though the alignment is same.

Could someone explain that?

If that is true, then a very tall person could not just pick up a pistol accurized for a short person and shoot as well as his own pistol?

oldcaster · Post by **oldcaster** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:12 pm

I don't know if height has any specific thing to do with this phenomenon. I think it is just the way a person looks at sights. My groups are always lower than when I bench rest and also right.

Muffo · Post by **Muffo** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:38 pm

Many different things affect your sights, thats why you have sighters at the start of a match, things like light, stance, grip tension, temp, humidity, tiredness and so on and so on. especially for open sights it is how you perceive the sights at that point of time in that situation. trying to set your sights from a bench rest is just a waste of time. theres only one time i could think of it being helpful is for a beginnjer that is bad enough they could shoot any form of group

Spencer · Post by **Spencer** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:30 am

seamaster wrote:Please explain to me why I can't accurize my air pistol on bench?

I adjusted my LP10 on bench vice with proper sub-six alignment. Pistol shot one hole grouping from bench vice dead center. But when I tried it out standing, the grouping is very off center, even though the alignment is same.

Could someone explain that?

If that is true, then a very tall person could not just pick up a pistol accurized for a short person and shoot as well as his own pistol?

While a bit of variation in the elevation can be expected, lateral differences indicate a problem - could be either grip and/or technique.

To fix grip
step 1 - get needed equipment (dremel and putty)
step 2 - adjust grip

To fix technique (and get advice on fixing grip)
step 1 - get coaching from an accredited coach
step 2 - follow coach's recommendations
step 3 - see step 2

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:40 am

I get pretty much the same location of impact between resting my 46m on a padded clamp on a door frame as I do shooting freehand, that is, when I'm really shooting well. The trick for me was figuring out that resting the pistol near the barrel tip was not right, it somehow damped the pistol in a way which made the point of impact significantly different than when resting it near the hand. So when I've had doubts about my sights/eyesight and wanted to check group centre I just put up a clamp, a small sandbag on that, then press the cocking lever just in front of my hand against this sandbag at normal eye level, standing, and shoot as though normal in every other respect. If I get 10's for a few shots running I know the sights are aligned and just go back to technique and figuring out what I might be doing incorrectly so as to get back on track.

seamaster · Post by **seamaster** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:34 am

Same sight alignment should have the SAME point of impact, no?

3 position rifle man do not adjust their sight for standing, kneeling, and prone, no?

jackh · Post by **jackh** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:53 am

I can shoot a 5 shot string grouping on the left side of the 10 ring. Then put the gun down, load the mag with 5 more, and shoot another 5 grouping on the right side of the 10 ring. Takes talent to be able to adjust my grip like that....:)

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:49 am

You are neglecting the torque from the shot going down a rifled barrel (twist) and (as another stated) a different grip.

luftskytter · Post by **luftskytter** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:57 pm

Most Air Pistols have noticable recoil so this is natural:
I get a slightly different point of impact when resting my arm on a cushion than when resting the butt of the grip against a table. Just resting my lower arm produces pretty similar results to when shooting standing.

I normally adjust my sights by observing the group center after a large number of shots, discarding flyers etc.

Seems to work well: the (few) shots that feel really good are mostly tens.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:10 pm

Someone here recently suggested use of a 'journal target' as in keeping a second card behind the first through a whole session. I've been doing this for the past month and find it a great guide to observing any trends over larger numbers of shots. It is often difficult to spot such trends with just ten shots on a target. A large hole in one area makes it easier to ignore fliers and spot the geometric center of my group.

luftskytter · Post by **luftskytter** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:20 pm

I may have mentioned the use of a "journal target" here:
I've done t his on a regular basis for a couple of years, and find this a good way of documenting a shooting session, plus as you confirm, a good visual aid for judging whether you should consider sight adjustments.

Today of course, we often shoot at electronic targets that indicate these things, but they include flyers and they are harder to take home unless your club has a means of providing a printed report.

al-sway · Post by **al-sway** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:48 am

seamaster wrote:Same sight alignment should have the SAME point of impact, no?

3 position rifle man do not adjust their sight for standing, kneeling, and prone, no?

No. Whatever sight alignment you are getting with the pistol clamped is not relevant to what you need when you are holding it in your hand. Bench rest or vise is used to determine accuracy of your pistol and ammunition, not for sighting.
There are other factors that come into play when you shoot the pistol one handed, as others have already listed. That includes your grip, and how firm and consistent that grip is, how you see the sights when you raise the pistol, and others.

ronpistolero · Post by **ronpistolero** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:51 pm

I agree with al-sway. The bench resting is for one to determine and give confidence that your gun is doing what it is supposed to do; and this emphasizes that this is the "constant". When you fire the weapon with your hand, you know you are the variable which is the reason why shooters fire different scores. :-)

Just my thoughts

Nev C · Post by **Nev C** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 7:46 am

seamaster wrote:Please explain to me why I can't accurize my air pistol on bench?

I adjusted my LP10 on bench vice with proper sub-six alignment. Pistol shot one hole grouping from bench vice dead center. But when I tried it out standing, the grouping is very off center, even though the alignment is same.

Could someone explain that

When you clamp it in a vice it is not subject to recoil, but when you hand hold it, recoil variation plays a big part in shot placement.

TargetTalk

Do you accurize you pistol on bench vice/rest ?

Do you accurize you pistol on bench vice/rest ?

Re: Do you accurize you pistol on bench vice/rest ?

Journal target

Re: Do you accurize you pistol on bench vice/rest ?