hello,
I was wondering what methods have you used to break in a new barrel and test fire to match a brand of ammo to the barrel. At our range we a a rest which is mounted to the wall in the first lane. You then rig up your rifle from the hand rail to the bench rails. The rifle itself will slide in a "V" groove on welded ball bearings. Fire 10-15 rounds of a selected brand "X" ammo to foul the barrel, then run a target down range and fire a test group of 3 to 5 shots. Then you clean the barrel and try brand "Y" ammo...repeat as many time as necessary.
regards,
patrick
barrel break in ...ammo test fire...
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WesternGrizzly
- Posts: 278
- Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:43 pm
I shoot 5 5 shot groups and take the average. The lot with the smallest average is the one I get.
After initial testing out of the machine rest, I then put a scope on my rifle and shoot some groups prone. I am looking for a certain "feel".
If you are shooting the same brand/grade of ammo (ie Tenex) then you don't need to clean between lots.
Matt
After initial testing out of the machine rest, I then put a scope on my rifle and shoot some groups prone. I am looking for a certain "feel".
If you are shooting the same brand/grade of ammo (ie Tenex) then you don't need to clean between lots.
Matt
First, most do not consider that smallbore barrels need to be broken in. If you have questions about a specific custom barrel it is best to talk with the barrel maker.
As for ammo testing, 'grizzly has a pretty good technique do the main culling off the rest, then shoot from the shoulder. Best to work with single power target scope with high magnification.
Again, I will agree with 'grizzly when just changing lots no need to shoot a bunch of fouling shots. If you are changing brands and sometimes just grades of ammo of the same brand, pushing a patch or two and shooting some foulers is a good idea.
There is an article on the is this months USA Shooting News, "Aim for the Best Ammo" written by SFC Eric Uptagrafft. It can offer a few more thoughts on the topic.
'Dude
As for ammo testing, 'grizzly has a pretty good technique do the main culling off the rest, then shoot from the shoulder. Best to work with single power target scope with high magnification.
Again, I will agree with 'grizzly when just changing lots no need to shoot a bunch of fouling shots. If you are changing brands and sometimes just grades of ammo of the same brand, pushing a patch or two and shooting some foulers is a good idea.
There is an article on the is this months USA Shooting News, "Aim for the Best Ammo" written by SFC Eric Uptagrafft. It can offer a few more thoughts on the topic.
'Dude
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metermatch
- Posts: 196
- Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:30 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, CA
Ammo testing
I kind of have to disagree with some of what was written here:
If you are going to test ammo, and shoot "5, 5 shot groups", then why not shoot all 25 into one group? I think you will get a better test of the ammo, as anyone that has done "5, 5 shot group" testing, has noticed that all 5 shots are not centered the same.
You really are looking for the extreme scatter of the group. Not make pretty 5 shot groups to show your friends.
Next, if you switch lots or types of ammo, I would shoot a few foulers. It isn't going to hurt anything, except a little cost. So it probably is not worth the time to argue the pros and cons. If you clean the barrel between lots of ammo (mistake in my opinion), you must shoot foulers perhaps as many as 20.
Machine rest shooting is a waste of time. You want to know what the ammo does when you hold, twist, and contort the rifle. And most importantly, how the gun recoils and vibrates when it is recoiling against YOU!
Here is how I test ammo:
Prone, sandbag under my forward wrist, 40x scope, at 100 yards, and try to shoot quickly. ALL 50 shots into same target. Also through a chronograph.
Then I switch lots, shoot about 5 foulers, and go for it again, for each lot.
After I narrow it down to about 5 lots, shoot again at 50 yards. I use the chrono info as kind of a tie breaker. In the past, RWS R50 had a reputation for occasionally having some smoking good lots that shot great at 50 yards, but sucked at 100 yards.
If I have located ammo that I think is good, I buy all I can afford, like a minimum of 10,000 rounds. If someone has some random amount like 2500 rounds, don't waste your time.
If you are a top level master shooter, and need the best, you probably won't have luck buying top ammo from a typical dealer. It is already picked over. I assure you, the folks at the shooting stores have their own set of friends that pick over the new ammo they get in stock. You will only get the leftover garbage. You must know someone high up the food chain near the actual importer, and get first crack at it. That is how groups like AMU and the OTC get it. Or they go to the factory.
If you are paying a lot of money for just a random lot of someones' ammo, well, good luck. Just because it is Tenex, doesn't guarantee anything.
Back in the 1980's, I learned this lesson the hard way. I bought 12 lots of 100 rounds each of Tenex from a noted gun shop. Tested it all, and it was all crap. I had Practice 100 that would outshoot some of it.
Some time later I clawed my way to master ranking, and started winning some club matches, which caught the eye of the club guru who was also a top distributor, who got it straight from the US importer. He let my try some lots of newly aquired Tenex, all were great, I picked one lot, bought all I could afford, and set 8 national records with it. Eley Tenex lot#WJ1001 1987 vintage.
Anybody have any for sale?
Jeff
If you are going to test ammo, and shoot "5, 5 shot groups", then why not shoot all 25 into one group? I think you will get a better test of the ammo, as anyone that has done "5, 5 shot group" testing, has noticed that all 5 shots are not centered the same.
You really are looking for the extreme scatter of the group. Not make pretty 5 shot groups to show your friends.
Next, if you switch lots or types of ammo, I would shoot a few foulers. It isn't going to hurt anything, except a little cost. So it probably is not worth the time to argue the pros and cons. If you clean the barrel between lots of ammo (mistake in my opinion), you must shoot foulers perhaps as many as 20.
Machine rest shooting is a waste of time. You want to know what the ammo does when you hold, twist, and contort the rifle. And most importantly, how the gun recoils and vibrates when it is recoiling against YOU!
Here is how I test ammo:
Prone, sandbag under my forward wrist, 40x scope, at 100 yards, and try to shoot quickly. ALL 50 shots into same target. Also through a chronograph.
Then I switch lots, shoot about 5 foulers, and go for it again, for each lot.
After I narrow it down to about 5 lots, shoot again at 50 yards. I use the chrono info as kind of a tie breaker. In the past, RWS R50 had a reputation for occasionally having some smoking good lots that shot great at 50 yards, but sucked at 100 yards.
If I have located ammo that I think is good, I buy all I can afford, like a minimum of 10,000 rounds. If someone has some random amount like 2500 rounds, don't waste your time.
If you are a top level master shooter, and need the best, you probably won't have luck buying top ammo from a typical dealer. It is already picked over. I assure you, the folks at the shooting stores have their own set of friends that pick over the new ammo they get in stock. You will only get the leftover garbage. You must know someone high up the food chain near the actual importer, and get first crack at it. That is how groups like AMU and the OTC get it. Or they go to the factory.
If you are paying a lot of money for just a random lot of someones' ammo, well, good luck. Just because it is Tenex, doesn't guarantee anything.
Back in the 1980's, I learned this lesson the hard way. I bought 12 lots of 100 rounds each of Tenex from a noted gun shop. Tested it all, and it was all crap. I had Practice 100 that would outshoot some of it.
Some time later I clawed my way to master ranking, and started winning some club matches, which caught the eye of the club guru who was also a top distributor, who got it straight from the US importer. He let my try some lots of newly aquired Tenex, all were great, I picked one lot, bought all I could afford, and set 8 national records with it. Eley Tenex lot#WJ1001 1987 vintage.
Anybody have any for sale?
Jeff
Three and five shot groups are good, but hardly a true indicator.
It has been proven over and over again that the "flyer" that runied your group or match was not a fluke. The ammo's true potential is triple the size you wanted/expected.
Some guys used to recommend shooting 5 or ten, whatever your preference, and then cover the target exactly with another target, and another target until you shoot 100 shots. The individual 5-10 shot targets can be left on or removed after each five or ten shot group. The bottom target will be a truer indicator of the gun/amm/lot potential. The individual cover targets can satisfy your small group fixation.
This is best done from a solid rest for initial testing.
It has been proven over and over again that the "flyer" that runied your group or match was not a fluke. The ammo's true potential is triple the size you wanted/expected.
Some guys used to recommend shooting 5 or ten, whatever your preference, and then cover the target exactly with another target, and another target until you shoot 100 shots. The individual 5-10 shot targets can be left on or removed after each five or ten shot group. The bottom target will be a truer indicator of the gun/amm/lot potential. The individual cover targets can satisfy your small group fixation.
This is best done from a solid rest for initial testing.
One thing that comes out here is that there is no single or universal method. The one constant to any method is that ammuntion selection is time consuming so as Metermatch says, when you find a lot, buy as much as you reasonably can.
I do appreciate the value of the idea that says shoot 50 rounds through one hole but will have to tune this a little. If I am testing 5 lots I don't have the stamina to consistenly deliver 250 shots from the shoulder, even with a sandbag for my left hand. This is why starting with small groups has value.
Sure, I start with 5 shot groups from a bench. Yes, the vibration of the rifle changes as you go from rest to shoulder but if the ammo won't shoot from the bench, chances are very small that it will shoot from the shoulder. A few five shot groups is great for the first cull and even with 5 shots you can tell pretty quickly the truly crappy lots from the real candidates. The ammo that shows more promise will get more testing, that is what this process is all about. The other issue with shooting five shot groups is it much easier to keep track of the shots I know I did not deliver cleanly. Sometimes I have to assign blame for being outside of the group to something I did.
When I am down to two or three lots, then I worry about shooting larger count groups from the shoulder. This is where I will set the point of impact below the aiming point and start hammering away, 25 to 50 rounds. (note I make sure the impact point is far enough away from the aimpoint/crosshairs so the mark will not get shredded or blown away during the making of the group.)
The one critical thing brought up by 'match is that you need to have a supplier who is willing to work with you and you need to be willing to put in the work. Consider that these days a case of Eley Tenex is going to be $2000+, this is not a trivial purchase so it pays to put in the effort to get it right.
Again I site the article by SFC Uptagrafft for more details and ideas on this topic.
'Dude
I do appreciate the value of the idea that says shoot 50 rounds through one hole but will have to tune this a little. If I am testing 5 lots I don't have the stamina to consistenly deliver 250 shots from the shoulder, even with a sandbag for my left hand. This is why starting with small groups has value.
Sure, I start with 5 shot groups from a bench. Yes, the vibration of the rifle changes as you go from rest to shoulder but if the ammo won't shoot from the bench, chances are very small that it will shoot from the shoulder. A few five shot groups is great for the first cull and even with 5 shots you can tell pretty quickly the truly crappy lots from the real candidates. The ammo that shows more promise will get more testing, that is what this process is all about. The other issue with shooting five shot groups is it much easier to keep track of the shots I know I did not deliver cleanly. Sometimes I have to assign blame for being outside of the group to something I did.
When I am down to two or three lots, then I worry about shooting larger count groups from the shoulder. This is where I will set the point of impact below the aiming point and start hammering away, 25 to 50 rounds. (note I make sure the impact point is far enough away from the aimpoint/crosshairs so the mark will not get shredded or blown away during the making of the group.)
The one critical thing brought up by 'match is that you need to have a supplier who is willing to work with you and you need to be willing to put in the work. Consider that these days a case of Eley Tenex is going to be $2000+, this is not a trivial purchase so it pays to put in the effort to get it right.
Again I site the article by SFC Uptagrafft for more details and ideas on this topic.
'Dude