I recently picked up two new to me Anschutz rifles. One is a 1413. It was made in 1965. It seems to be missing the buttplate (but not the LOP adjuster), the plam stop, the sights, and any accessories but is otherwise functional.
The other rifle bought was a barreled action, and just that. No bolt, no trigger group. It looks to be a 16xx series action. It has a dovetail rail in front and behind the ejection port. The serial number is 169358X. It appears to have been rebarreled by Karl Kenyon as the barrel is SS with the markings "K_KENYON_____H". The barrel is threaded rather than pinned and has slots for two extractors.
The 1413 has a single stage trigger. It appears to be the 3lb trigger from images that I've seen online. Only difference is that the trigger pull would be (guessing without a pull gauge) at or a bit under 1lb.
For fun, I mounted the 1413 trigger group onto the 16xx action. Everything went fine. When I insert the 1413 bolt into the 16xx, it stops .1" or so short of the cam engagement. It appears that the wing safety (which has been machined short but not gone by a previous owner) is touching the back of the action stopping the bolt from going all the way home. With the bolt partially disassembled and the wing safety removed, the bolt will go fully into position and cam shut. If I push forward on the firing pin (since I have no tension with the rear cap/safety removed) and then pull the trigger it operates as normal.
So for the questions. I plan to build the 16xx into a fun gun. Not something to compete in any given competition, just something to toy around with. What are my options to complete this action? If I find an older bolt from say a 14xx action, will it work with the safety machined off? If so will it only work with older 14xx triggers or would any of the trigger sets work? I've heard the difference between 16xx and 18xx bolt is that the 16 has a slot that exposes the firing pin and spring. If that is the case, will an 18xx bolt work if say a 5018 trigger was used?
I'm very confused on what is and what isn't interchangeable or interchangeable with slight modification especially on the 16xx series action. Without having either a trigger or bolt I'm not sure if that opens a few more doors for me or not. The hard part at this point seems to be finding a bolt. Obviously I will have to check headspace regardless of what bolt I end up with. I was just checking ahead to see if anyone had any knowledge on what options I had and what absolutely wouldn't work.
Since this is just a fun gun, there are quite a few trigger options that I would be satisfied using. If a 14xx bolt would only work with an older 14xx trigger that would work for me. I'm really just looking to get this up and running and then go from there.
Thoughts, comments, ideas, spare parts for sale?
Thanks,
Matt
A few questions on a new set of Annies
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
First, the older single stage trigger could be adjusted from about 1lbf to over 3lbf. When you got the trigger new or a new rifle there was a set of springs (at least two springs, perhaps three i forget) that you would interchange to span the entire pull force range.
Next, the serial number you give sound like it is toward the end of the X series serial numbers.
Now, all triggers for the Match 54 action are interchangeable to the receiver body but in general must be kept with the proper series bolt. (ie 14xx trigger to 14xx bolt etc.) This has to do with the location of the firing pin catch on the release lever of the trigger. Then as you have noted, the receiver is machined a bit differently from the wing bolts to the later cone bolts but the difference is very subtle. This means that a 14xx trigger will mount to a 18xx receiver but the reciever will not allow the 14xx bolt to close. You can however go the other way just fine.
Not sure when they closed the bottom of the 18xx bolt, it was late in the 18xx series.
Now, what to do... It is odd that the bolt was separated from the receiver. Sure barreled actions showing up without a trigger is not too uncommon but no bolt?.... now that is a puzzler. Bottom line, there aren't too many spare bolts just floating around.
Your best be will be to get with someone (can't recommend anyone right now as my gunsmith just turned in his license) who smiths Anschutz. They should be able to build you a bolt, set the head space and match the appropriate trigger. From what I know about current parts support from Anschutz it will be a 18xx/19xx bolt. Even if you found an old 14xx bolt and trigger milling the safety off is not a great idea, it is kind of handy to have that wing there for bolt disassembly. You could mill a little off the front of the wing I suppose, personally, not my favorite option.
Note, just for fun huh?. That is kind of too bad as chances are unless that barrel has been abused the barreled action is likely superbly accurate. Karl Kenyon built excellent rifles.
Next, the serial number you give sound like it is toward the end of the X series serial numbers.
Now, all triggers for the Match 54 action are interchangeable to the receiver body but in general must be kept with the proper series bolt. (ie 14xx trigger to 14xx bolt etc.) This has to do with the location of the firing pin catch on the release lever of the trigger. Then as you have noted, the receiver is machined a bit differently from the wing bolts to the later cone bolts but the difference is very subtle. This means that a 14xx trigger will mount to a 18xx receiver but the reciever will not allow the 14xx bolt to close. You can however go the other way just fine.
Not sure when they closed the bottom of the 18xx bolt, it was late in the 18xx series.
Now, what to do... It is odd that the bolt was separated from the receiver. Sure barreled actions showing up without a trigger is not too uncommon but no bolt?.... now that is a puzzler. Bottom line, there aren't too many spare bolts just floating around.
Your best be will be to get with someone (can't recommend anyone right now as my gunsmith just turned in his license) who smiths Anschutz. They should be able to build you a bolt, set the head space and match the appropriate trigger. From what I know about current parts support from Anschutz it will be a 18xx/19xx bolt. Even if you found an old 14xx bolt and trigger milling the safety off is not a great idea, it is kind of handy to have that wing there for bolt disassembly. You could mill a little off the front of the wing I suppose, personally, not my favorite option.
Note, just for fun huh?. That is kind of too bad as chances are unless that barrel has been abused the barreled action is likely superbly accurate. Karl Kenyon built excellent rifles.
It's a recent pick up from the CMP. They had a barrel full of different 54 actions with barrels. The KKenyon marked barreled action was actually cheaper than those that came with factory Anschutz actions. I noticed the marks and grabbed it in hopes that it would be a shooter. I just meant I wasn't looking to compete in any specific competition. The wing safety on the current 1413 bolt is already too small to actuate as a safety. It's just enough to get a screw driver under in the case it gets bumped into the safe position.
Still, glad to hear that the real issue is matching the bolt to the trigger. That was what I was hoping. Milling a bit off the wing of another bolt wouldn't be my first choice, but if I can find a used bolt at a decent price I certainly wouldn't be against it rather than paying the price I fear a new bolt will cost. I think it's going to be one of those wait and see items.
Still, glad to hear that the real issue is matching the bolt to the trigger. That was what I was hoping. Milling a bit off the wing of another bolt wouldn't be my first choice, but if I can find a used bolt at a decent price I certainly wouldn't be against it rather than paying the price I fear a new bolt will cost. I think it's going to be one of those wait and see items.
'Dude,justadude wrote: Not sure when they closed the bottom of the 18xx bolt, it was late in the 18xx series.
18xx bolts have never been slotted. 16xx bolts were slotted up to 1980. I've seen several 1980 proofed M54s that have an X serial no, a Match 54 (not 18xx) stamped barrel - but a 5018 trigger and a closed bolt. Probably just using up parts. My 1813 is a 1980/81 vintage based on the SN, but has the X.
Tim S,
This is what I get for punching away at the keyboard late at night while taking cold meds. : )
I just went to look, there appear to be three variants of the "cone back" bolt. You are correct, the 16xx bolt is slotted underneath the main body of the bolt so you can see the bottom of the firing pin. The 18xx and 19xx bolts are all closed with two variations. On the early 18xx bolt there is a groove on the bottom of the bolt that goes over/around the ejector pin. (Just on the forward part of the bolt body that is over the loading tray) Late in the 18xx the bottom of the bolt is milled down so the groove is gone.
Yeah, 78-80/81 was about the run of the X serial numbers and it was right in this period Anschutz was working a bit with release lever geometries so I would not be surprised to see a late X series with the true 18xx bolt and trigger. On casual observation the differences between the 16xx and 18xx trigger (507? vs 5018 I think) were subtle so you need to pay attention there as well.
The bottom line to all of this discussion, a person needs be careful that the bolt and trigger were meant to go together.
So others can see what the heck we are talking about I am putting up a picture of 4 bolts, a 14xx, 16xx, early 18xx and late 18xx/19xx. From top to bottom, note the bottom of the 14xx is closed, the 16xx is slotted, the early 18xx is closed with a groove where the slot on the 16xx is and the late 18xx/19xx has no groove, just a slight raised area. Not the greatest picture but I think it gets the idea across.
The bottom line, you should be careful the bolt and trigger were meant for each other.
This is what I get for punching away at the keyboard late at night while taking cold meds. : )
I just went to look, there appear to be three variants of the "cone back" bolt. You are correct, the 16xx bolt is slotted underneath the main body of the bolt so you can see the bottom of the firing pin. The 18xx and 19xx bolts are all closed with two variations. On the early 18xx bolt there is a groove on the bottom of the bolt that goes over/around the ejector pin. (Just on the forward part of the bolt body that is over the loading tray) Late in the 18xx the bottom of the bolt is milled down so the groove is gone.
Yeah, 78-80/81 was about the run of the X serial numbers and it was right in this period Anschutz was working a bit with release lever geometries so I would not be surprised to see a late X series with the true 18xx bolt and trigger. On casual observation the differences between the 16xx and 18xx trigger (507? vs 5018 I think) were subtle so you need to pay attention there as well.
The bottom line to all of this discussion, a person needs be careful that the bolt and trigger were meant to go together.
So others can see what the heck we are talking about I am putting up a picture of 4 bolts, a 14xx, 16xx, early 18xx and late 18xx/19xx. From top to bottom, note the bottom of the 14xx is closed, the 16xx is slotted, the early 18xx is closed with a groove where the slot on the 16xx is and the late 18xx/19xx has no groove, just a slight raised area. Not the greatest picture but I think it gets the idea across.
The bottom line, you should be careful the bolt and trigger were meant for each other.
- Attachments
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- 4 bolts (top to bottom) 14xx, 16xx, 18xx and late 18xx or 19xx.
'Dude,
spot on! As far as I can tell/am aware all 18 and 19 bolts are interchangeable (allowing for headsapce). I presume the change from the groove to the flat on the front was just to save machining time and reduce costs.
All the 1980 16/18 hybrids I've seen had the 5018 trigger, no difference to any other. Mine 1980 non-slotted bolt and 1979 slotted bolt can't be swapped. For reference even the smaller springs at the back of the bolts are different, the 1613 is slightly shorter. I managed to swap these by accident last year - the result was a near 90% misfire rate.
spot on! As far as I can tell/am aware all 18 and 19 bolts are interchangeable (allowing for headsapce). I presume the change from the groove to the flat on the front was just to save machining time and reduce costs.
All the 1980 16/18 hybrids I've seen had the 5018 trigger, no difference to any other. Mine 1980 non-slotted bolt and 1979 slotted bolt can't be swapped. For reference even the smaller springs at the back of the bolts are different, the 1613 is slightly shorter. I managed to swap these by accident last year - the result was a near 90% misfire rate.