AP trigger weight

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:04 pm

A couple of items brought this subject to mind. A friend recently sent his LP10 to Pilk for repair and received a call stating his trigger weight was light for ISSF competition and asking if he'd like it adjusted.

Being a decent guy, he of course agreed. It made me decide to check my own (recently acquired) gun, since I had accidentally put a couple of pellets into the wall at home.

A quick and dirty way to do this for people who don't have trigger weights is to take a couple of tins of pellets and tape them to a bent piece of wire coat hangar, then try to lift them hooked over the trigger.

Need I say I made a considerable adjustment to my trigger.

Since it's only at the "important" matches that trigger weight is checked, this might be a good (fun, disturbing, disgruntling) thing to do at lesser, say club level, matches.

Do you know where your trigger is? Let the whining commence!

RandomShotz · Post by **RandomShotz** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:02 pm

I noticed the other day that the trigger on my Morini 162 had changed somehow and I could not feel the transition from first to second stage. I work in a lab and have access to a ridiculously expensive device which I used to set the trigger force to ~520 gm about 4 months ago. Turns out that the force had drifted down to ~390 gm, with a disproportionate loss from the second stage. I knew that springs under constant tension would weaken but was surprised that the change was so rapid.

BTW, what should the differential between first and second stage be anyway? Not much point in saying "Whatever feels right" - I"m still too new at this and a setup that feels right may simply feel comfortable and not be the most effective in the long run.

Thanks

Roger

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:40 pm

I couldn't say what it is "supposed" to be. I just make sure I can clearly feel it without unintentionally shooting.

David M · Post by **David M** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:59 pm

A good place to start is 60/40.
Put about 300g on first stage and 200g on second.
Feel the trigger and adjust to taste.

renzo · Post by **renzo** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:33 pm

Can happen to everybody.................

In the WC this year at Ft. Benning the best Brazilian pistol shooter (Almeida) was DSQ for this reason, and - believe it or not - Tomoyuki Matsuda, currently ranked # 1 in FP, suffered the same fate at the WC Finals in Poland, a few days ago.

http://www.issf-sports.org/xmlresultpag ... nior=False

http://www.issf-sports.org/xmlresultpag ... nior=False

Who would even think of it if told beforehand??

I for miself check my LP10 the week before every match (here I have at least one official contest per month) and sometimes I found it dangerously close to "not making" the trigger weight, in spite of being adjusted always to 550 grams (just to have a margin of safety).

RandomShotz · Post by **RandomShotz** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:50 pm

OK, right now my trigger is set for ~350 + 200 gm and that is working for me.

But the fact that it drifts so dramatically has convinced me that I should have some convenient way of checking trigger weight without taking the gun into the lab. It also has me wondering if perhaps I should have a set of springs (or two - they are buggers to find if they get away) in reserve.

Roger

renzo · Post by **renzo** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:35 pm

Any lathe operator can make one of these weights with 40 cm. of 5 mm. diameter wire and 40 mm. diameter copper rod, and for practically cents.

We have one made locally at our local club, available to all shooters, with combination weights for 500, 1000 and 1360 grams (old CF rules).

http://www.gehmann.com/pages-de/detail. ... dline=Zoom

RandomShotz · Post by **RandomShotz** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:53 pm

Conveniently, I am a machinist, and that will be an easy pattern to follow. I will probably use stainless steel, tho', since we have plenty of bits and pieces of that around the shop. I'm thinking a set of (2) 200 gm, (2) 100 gm and a few 50's and 20's to round it out.

Thanks.

Now if I can only get some shop time ...

renzo · Post by **renzo** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:07 pm

While you're at it, please observe Rules 8.4.1.6, 8.4.1.6.1 and 8.4.1.6.2 regarding the shape of the contacting rod and the method for testing trigger weight.

You can download the rules from the I.S.S.F. website, and it even has a very clear and precise drawing concerning the aforementioned shape in them.

Good luck!

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:18 pm

Note the "quick and dirty" in my initial post.

John Zurek was DSQ last year in Europe for this even though his gun was tested before the match. Knowing John, I'm sure there was no "hanky-panky" on his part. He's still pissed!

j-team · Post by **j-team** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:43 pm

renzo wrote:... and 40 mm. diameter copper rod, and for practically cents.

Have you seen the price of copper recently?

lastman · Post by **lastman** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:31 pm

I find it interesting to know how much people trigger weights move.

I check mine regularly and rarely have to adjust the weight.

You should definitely have your trigger weight set at the proper weight every time you shoot. Otherwise when you get to the 'important' matches you will be pressing a trigger that you're not used to.

I know with my LP10 it is easier to adjust the second stage weight that the first and as such if I had to adjust it before an important match, the ratio of first stage weight to second stage would also be out.

It's only subtle, but it's a distraction you don't need when you have other things to focus on.

In short, get it right and keep it right.

Good luck

David M · Post by **David M** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:47 pm

Trigger weights do vary a little, but I set up a trigger so that a Airpistol will lift a 20c (12g) coin and a Standard pistol a 50c (16g) coin. The old C/F (service pistol) I use 70 cents.
I have never seen a pistol vary outside these limits without something else causing a change.

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:57 am

David M wrote:A good place to start is 60/40.
Put about 300g on first stage and 200g on second.
Feel the trigger and adjust to taste.

That's a good place to start, but don't go so close to the limit. You want a trigger that is comfortably clear of the limit, for when it does change - and temperature etc can have a big effect on some guns. You will easily get used to a 20 or 30g heavier triiger and it won't affect performance.

There's nothing worse than your trigger failing EQ and having to adjust before the match, apart from it scraping through and then failing the post match check and you getting DQ'd.

Rob.

Dr. Jim · Post by **Dr. Jim** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:48 am

You get 3 chances for the trigger to lift the 500 grm weight before the match, and if the draw awards you a test at the end, the same 3 chances. I have always found that those who desperately push the limit - i.e. trying for an exact 500 grms will have the most problems, and even a perfectly adjusted trigger at that level will only lift two out of three tries. Plane travel, altitudinal changes, air pressure variances can all have an effect. At this year's Canadian Nationals, I had at least 25 shooters who had to "readjust" before approval was granted. I always advise setting the trigger at least 25 grams (weight of a dollar coin) above the minimum in order to avoid problems.

Dr Jim

luftskytter · Post by **luftskytter** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:13 am

I use a 1/2 litre soda bottle with a screw-on cap.
Here in Norway they have a "ring" around the neck so it's easy to make and attach a wire hook for hanging it from the trigger.
Put it on an electronic kitchen scale and fill up with water until it weighs around 520 grams.

Cheap and easy.

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:42 am

For us ignorant Americans, that's just under 18 1/2 ounces.

peterz · Post by **peterz** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:30 am

I used a somewhat smaller water bottle and then got discarded lead weights for balancing tires from my friendly service station. Worked perfectly -- and the marked values on the weights were pretty accurate. Make fine adjustment with pellets dug out of the trap. Total cost: almost nothing.

david alaways · Post by **david alaways** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:04 am

That trigger did put alot of stress on me acouple times , You go to a match and it's to light then you have to try to get it right. Im finally getting used to my new gun ,but for awhile I wish i had never sold that one. Thats one reason i stopped shooting for a year , my new gun even with my grip and same model just wasnt the same.

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:20 am

Of course it wasn't the same. That's why you bought a new one.

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