Morini CM22RF or Hammerli 280

[Multiplexman]

I am about to return to standard pistol. I want to supplement my AP training to keep shooting "fresh". My intention is to shoot standard pistol and the occassional RF match.

I previously (>15 years ago) shot with a Hammerli 280. I really enjoyed this pistol for standard pistol events.

I am considering the Morini CM22RF Alu (new) or a H280 in "excellent" condition. Whilst the grips/holds are different, they both feel well balanced in the hand.

My questions:
- Is the Hammerli 280 reaching an age where reliability is now an issue? -- Can any/all "issues" be resolved? My concern is with wear on the composite frame. Is this an issue?
- Any recommendations for a gunsmith in Australia, preferably NSW, who has good Hammerli experience?

I would only be shooting 22LR.

I feel the Morini would offer the simplest solution but one always looks back with fondness to pistols that significantly shaped your shooting experience...

Cheers

[brakarzac]

Owning both guns myself, its a tough question.
My Hammerli 280 is kind of my back up at the moment, as I shoot most matches now with my SP20.

I also own the Morini, and love that too... but the trigger on the 280 is beutiful, in my eyes far more superior than the morini. Now I know I will get flamed and attacked for saying this, but if you can grab a good 280, do so.

They are still just as good today as the day they were made!

Just dont bother with a Matchuns MG2 or MG2R

Not wroth they heartache

cheers
Brad

[Multiplexman]

I visited a gun dealer on the weekend and tried (dry fire only):
- Hammerli 280 (average condition)
- Morini CM22RF Alu
- Pardini SP1 RF E
- Pardini SP RF M
- Walther GSP

The pistols were tried in this order. All felt good in the hand with medium grips. I guess I am easy to fit.

The 280 brought back memories and fit like an old glove. Though a bit like a glove someone else had worn as an aftermarket grip had been fitted! The sight picture and trigger action were all I could ask. If the pistol had been in better condition, and with an original grip, I would have purchased it and ended my search.

The CM22RF was so light and appeared to disappear in my grip. It was as close to a point & shoot experience I had ever had. The Alu was presented with no weights fitted.

I felt the magazine release was a bit "unfinished". A rather sharp edge to the lever. Compare this to the Pardini magazine release.

The Morini trigger action can only described as crisp. I was very impressed with this pistol.

The Pardinis both felt muzzle heavy as presented. This was easily adjusted by exchanging the tungsten weights.

I found the Pardini M action to be on par with the Morini. The E trigger - this almost had me reaching for my plastic. It was simply the crispest trigger with the cleanest break I have used.

I feel the slide lock button on the lower surface of the frame was not as nice to use as the button on the Morini.

The Walther in comparison just did not "fit" me well. It is a beautifully presented pistol but not for me.

A few observations:
- I think all pistols could have been adjusted to have similar balance and weight.
- The different feel in trigger actions may be attributed to how they have been set. I was surprised by the completely different feel between the Pardini M & E variants. I would have thought these would have been more similar.
- To have a completely fair test would require more than a couple hours to adjust the pistols - for weight, balance and action.

Unfortunately time was limited. I was unable to try a SP20RRS. Several shooters have mentioned that if I like the 280 I must try the SP20RRS.

I am even more confused with the selection on offer.

I will predominately be shooting standard pistol. Will I be compromising my shooting by going with a RF specific pistol?

[Leon]

Which dealer in Sydney had all of those in stock?

[Multiplexman]

Leon,

Wilson's Target Arms - Avoca Beach.

I saw Bill. Kathy was away.

Cheers.

[David M]

Easy,ask which pistol are in current production and have parts available ?
The poor 280 has very limited part available.

[jipe]

I do not think that you can adjust the balance of all those pistol to be the same.

If you like a muzzle heavy pistol, you indeed can add weights to the Morini to be like the Pardini and GSP.

But if you prefer a pistol which is not muzzle heavy or a lightweight pistol, you won't be able to adjust the balance of the Pardini and GSP to be like the Morini.

Note also that the angle of the grip of these pistols is different: Morini and Pardini are more modern pistols with a raked grip while the older GSP and 280 have more vertical grip.

And as said David, go for a pistol still in production with available spare parts. i.e. the Morini, Pardini's, or GSP.

[Multiplexman]

@jipe - I've come to that conclusion re older pistols.

I've decided to stick with a mechanical action. My reasoning is mainly cost & complexity of the electronic versions.

I want reliability first followed by fit & balance.

My short list:
- Morini CM22RF
- Pardini SP RF (mech)
- Hammerli SP20RRS (yet to try)

Cheers.

[j-team]

But if you prefer a pistol which is not muzzle heavy or a lightweight pistol, you won't be able to adjust the balance of the Pardini and GSP to be like the Morini.

Have you ever picked up a Pardini with all the barrel weights removed? It's no more muzzle heavy than the Morini. If you want neutral balance you need to look at AW93 or IZH35.

If you are buying a new pistol, don't buy the GSP, it's a 50 year old design.

[jipe]

But if you prefer a pistol which is not muzzle heavy or a lightweight pistol, you won't be able to adjust the balance of the Pardini and GSP to be like the Morini.

Have you ever picked up a Pardini with all the barrel weights removed? It's no more muzzle heavy than the Morini. If you want neutral balance you need to look at AW93 or IZH35.

If you are buying a new pistol, don't buy the GSP, it's a 50 year old design.

Yes, I tried it and your remark make me wonder if you ever tried a Morini CM22M RF (the new RF version with full aluminum frame, the old CM22M steel version was as heavy as a Pardini) !?

The Pardini, especially the latest SP new with its huge muzzle weight, even empty (without the inner recoil damping weights, removing them make you loose their recoil damping effect), is heavier than the Morini and more muzzle heavy. When you dismount the Pardini and have the muzzle weight in your hand, you experience how heavy that thing is ! The previous version was, for me, better balanced but other people like a lot the Pardini and its muzzle heaviness.

The Morini CM22M RF alu (without its additional weights and the rail to mount them on) is the lightest standard/RF pistol on the market. To give an idea, the Morini (no rail, no additional weights) is around 850g while the Pardini is around 1.2kg just like the GSP (as with any pistol, the exact weight depends of the grip type and size).

That said, an ultra lightweight pistol is not necessarily good, most people who shoot the CM22M RF put some additional weights and Morini made a second version of the CM22M RF with the lower part of the frame in steel (the upper part, around the barrel, remains in aluminum).

[Tycho]

I wonder what kind of Pardini you had there - my SP RF (2010 build, mechanical trigger) is 1,047kg including all 6 tungsten weights... And if you want neutral balance and good grip adjustability (which the CM22 doesn't have, either), get a MG2 ;-) Besides, something I really dislike about the CM22 is the angle of the trigger and the tiny space around it, but that is quite obviously something where YMMV.

[Leon]

@jipe - I've come to that conclusion re older pistols.

I've decided to stick with a mechanical action. My reasoning is mainly cost & complexity of the electronic versions.

I want reliability first followed by fit & balance.

My short list:
- Morini CM22RF
- Pardini SP RF (mech)
- Hammerli SP20RRS (yet to try)

Cheers.

Don't discount the e triggers. I switched from a Pardini SP New mech. to a Pardini SP1 E ( with an MG2 interlude between ) and can highly recommend the electronic trigger Pardini. It has been 100% reliable.

If you are only or mostly going to shoot standard pistol and are thinking about the Pardini, save some $ and get the non rapid fire version.

[j-team]

To give an idea, the Morini (no rail, no additional weights) is around 850g while the Pardini is around 1.2kg just like the GSP (as with any pistol, the exact weight depends of the grip type and size).

Hmmm... Just put my Pardini on the scales, with all six tungsten weights in it it's just under 1150grams. The weights are 35g each, so the bare pistol comes in under 1kg. And, to answer your question, I have shot both steel and aluminium Morini.

Balance and overall weight are two different things. The AW93 has a neutral balance but you would still call it heavy compared to the other pistols that use aluminium in the frames.

[Multiplexman]

I was able to try a SP20RRS this morning. I found the fit and finish disappointing coming from a 280.

The action felt crude compared to the Morini and Pardini.

More troubling was the number of SP20RRS in 22LR that have been through the shop with failures. I actually saw a customer's pistol that had just come back after repair.

I so wanted to like the SP20RRS but it was not to be.

I decided on the Morini CM22MRF. It just falls into my hand a bit better than the Pardini. I can best describe it as a "point and shoot" experience.

At this level, selection is definitely a very personal thing.

Thanks for all those who helped with their advice.

Now I must wait whilst the paperwork is processed...

[jipe]

To give an idea, the Morini (no rail, no additional weights) is around 850g while the Pardini is around 1.2kg just like the GSP (as with any pistol, the exact weight depends of the grip type and size).

Hmmm... Just put my Pardini on the scales, with all six tungsten weights in it it's just under 1150grams. The weights are 35g each, so the bare pistol comes in under 1kg. And, to answer your question, I have shot both steel and aluminium Morini.

Balance and overall weight are two different things. The AW93 has a neutral balance but you would still call it heavy compared to the other pistols that use aluminium in the frames.

Yes, the RF version weight 50g less than the standard version, many parts including the breech and barrel are different on the RF and standard version, not only the tungsten weights. If you remove the weights you also loose the benefit = recoil dampening/muzzle jump reduction they bring and anyway, it is still heavier than the CM22M RF.

For the balance, the Pardini has a huge/heavy muzzle weight (210g for the tungsten weights, but the housing is also heavy) that doesn't exist on the Morini and is therefore more muzzle heavy than the Morini. But again this is not a drawback, it is a question of taste some shooters like that muzzle heaviness, some others don't.

[jbshooter]

Ideally I'd have the barrel length of the SSP or MG2, the trigger unit from a 280 with the triggershoe from a later GSP, the adjustable grip from a MG2, the upswinging hammer from a MG2 or KSP, the looks of an AW93, the sights from any morini.