As far as I can tell, the rules say the height is to be 0.75 meters, +- 0.50 meters.
That is a large range of possible heights. For those of you have shot ISSF 50 Meter in competition, is there an approximate "standard" height that the target is set for Prone, Standing and Kneeling?
Thanks,
Mike
ISSF 50 Meter Target Height
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
Since you are talking about setting the height this pretty much implies you need to hang a paper target every 20 shots or so.
For the A-50/51 target you really want to hang it so the horizontal line running along the midpoint between the top two and bottom two record bulls is at 0.75 meters above the height of the firing line. That is ideal and you construct your positions to accomodate that target height. If you go to some place with the electronic targets you will get pretty much 0.75 meters and you don't get to go down range to adjust. Train to the standard.
The vertical tolerance does allow for physical limits of a range and also for targets to be placed for safe bullet impact into the earth berm. On my home range if I were to shoot offhand on a target at the perfect height the shots would impact the dirt about 30 yards in front of the berm (berm is at about 110 yards) and possibly skip over it. Therefore I have to raise the target, not so much for the sake of the position but for the sake of safety.
'Dude
For the A-50/51 target you really want to hang it so the horizontal line running along the midpoint between the top two and bottom two record bulls is at 0.75 meters above the height of the firing line. That is ideal and you construct your positions to accomodate that target height. If you go to some place with the electronic targets you will get pretty much 0.75 meters and you don't get to go down range to adjust. Train to the standard.
The vertical tolerance does allow for physical limits of a range and also for targets to be placed for safe bullet impact into the earth berm. On my home range if I were to shoot offhand on a target at the perfect height the shots would impact the dirt about 30 yards in front of the berm (berm is at about 110 yards) and possibly skip over it. Therefore I have to raise the target, not so much for the sake of the position but for the sake of safety.
'Dude
Thanks Dude, and by the way, I don't think anyone knows as much about Anschutz rifles as you do.
The 0.75 meter seems peculiar to me, as Air Rife is 1.4 meters. I would have thought that to keep the aspect angle the same, the 50 meter target would have to be even higher. The fact that it is lower means that building the standing position is completely different than air. Or so it would seem to this novice.
I assume that the height stays the same for all three positions?
Best,
Mike
The 0.75 meter seems peculiar to me, as Air Rife is 1.4 meters. I would have thought that to keep the aspect angle the same, the 50 meter target would have to be even higher. The fact that it is lower means that building the standing position is completely different than air. Or so it would seem to this novice.
I assume that the height stays the same for all three positions?
Best,
Mike
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WesternGrizzly
- Posts: 278
- Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:43 pm
Correct. When you shoot on electronic targets the target doesn't move. It is maybe a little high in prone, feels like its on the floor in standing and its perfect in kneeling.
I have the same problem as 'dude. If i shoot standing with the center bull at .75M the bullets will be in the dirt in front of the berm. And my range is a flood basin and there is a golf course on the other side of the berm. So we cant have any bullets out of the berm.
Matt
I have the same problem as 'dude. If i shoot standing with the center bull at .75M the bullets will be in the dirt in front of the berm. And my range is a flood basin and there is a golf course on the other side of the berm. So we cant have any bullets out of the berm.
Matt
mbradley
First, thanks for the 'nod' on my Anschutz knowledge, I will temper that, I know a fair bit about the older 14xx-19xx Match 54 action but I feel I am still learning from others. The newer 20xx action?, I can recognize it as a rifle part. : )
As for target height, you are correct: For myself (basically a 6' male) my eye is about 1.7m off the ground. OK, so the angle must drop 0.3m in 10m for the air rifle target. If I carry that out to 50m I would drop 5X0.3m or 1.5m total. So to have the exact same standing position for 50m offhand as I do for 10m air (assumes dimsionally identical rifles) I would need to be able to place my 50m target at 0.2m off the ground. Now that would be for me. The solution is going to change depending on your particular height.
Interestingly, ignoring the fact that the shooters eye is usually a little behind the firing line if your eye was 1.56m (61 inches) off the ground the alignment of the target height from 10m to 50m would be perfect.
Cheers,
'Dude
First, thanks for the 'nod' on my Anschutz knowledge, I will temper that, I know a fair bit about the older 14xx-19xx Match 54 action but I feel I am still learning from others. The newer 20xx action?, I can recognize it as a rifle part. : )
As for target height, you are correct: For myself (basically a 6' male) my eye is about 1.7m off the ground. OK, so the angle must drop 0.3m in 10m for the air rifle target. If I carry that out to 50m I would drop 5X0.3m or 1.5m total. So to have the exact same standing position for 50m offhand as I do for 10m air (assumes dimsionally identical rifles) I would need to be able to place my 50m target at 0.2m off the ground. Now that would be for me. The solution is going to change depending on your particular height.
Interestingly, ignoring the fact that the shooters eye is usually a little behind the firing line if your eye was 1.56m (61 inches) off the ground the alignment of the target height from 10m to 50m would be perfect.
Cheers,
'Dude
Dude and Grizz, thanks for the reply. Dude, once again I have to defer to your wisdom on the matter, as the way I was thinking about it, the target would need to be higher, not lower. It was not until I read your post and then drew it on paper that I saw what you meant.
One thing for sure, that will certainly change the way I practice. I think it will help though, as getting the front end of the rifle high enough creates the most contortions for me.
I would be interested to know the history of how that height was chosen, and why the heights are not changed for positions. Novice questions, for sure... Best,
Mike
One thing for sure, that will certainly change the way I practice. I think it will help though, as getting the front end of the rifle high enough creates the most contortions for me.
I would be interested to know the history of how that height was chosen, and why the heights are not changed for positions. Novice questions, for sure... Best,
Mike
I knew there must be an advantage to being 5'2 somewhere in life :)justadude wrote: Interestingly, ignoring the fact that the shooters eye is usually a little behind the firing line if your eye was 1.56m (61 inches) off the ground the alignment of the target height from 10m to 50m would be perfect.
Cheers,
'Dude
As to why the heights aren't changed for positions - 50m is a long way away relative to the change in height of your eye in the positions, so it's only a little angular change. For 10m 3P, where it's much closer so you'd get a huge change in angle, you shoot off tables at varying heights for prone and kneeling.
I know on some ranges you shoot off tables for 3P at 50m too, but I'm not sure whether this is non ISSF or whether it's optional.
If my memory is still working in the US we shot off tables for prone at the Olympic Range in Los Angeles (1984). It was a long time ago in a land far far away but one of the ranges out west we had tables. Used the ground for offhand and kneeling.I know on some ranges you shoot off tables for 3P at 50m too, but I'm not sure whether this is non ISSF or whether it's optional.
Also, Skylark has it right, at 50m the angular change from prone to offhand to kneeling is not all that great so a fixed height is not too bad to deal with.
Why did they choose 0.75 meters? I don't know, it has been at that height since the 1970s. (when I was a junior) Why is it fixed? Someone may have thought about making the targets movable but then looked at the target changer mechanism (in the old days you pressed a button or pulled a lever to bring a perfectly clean paper target into view after EVERY shot) and realized that the boxes were too big and bulky to be moving up and down, so a height was selected and there it is. That is just conjecture on my part.
Cheers,
'Dude
ISSF 6.3.12.1 If shooting is done from tables, the tables must be approximately 2.2 m long and 0.8 m to 1 m wide, firm, stable and removable. Shooting tables may slope to the rear a maximum of 10 cm.skylark wrote:...I know on some ranges you shoot off tables for 3P at 50m too, but I'm not sure whether this is non ISSF or whether it's optional.
Shooting tables are normally only encountered on 'safety' ranges; they bring the shooters up to height where they can shoot over any ground baffling for prone (and sometimes kneeling) position and/or ensure that they are not low enough to see sky between overhead baffles in the prone position.
This thread had me thinking and then...
I ran across this table at the CMP website and I thought it may be helpful.
http://www.odcmp.com/Training/CR/TargetHeightTables.pdf
From reading all of the previous posts, I was pretty sure that the dot I use for dry-fire is at the wrong height. Now I'm certain!
http://www.odcmp.com/Training/CR/TargetHeightTables.pdf
From reading all of the previous posts, I was pretty sure that the dot I use for dry-fire is at the wrong height. Now I'm certain!