.32 S&W LWC dies

oldcaster · Post by **oldcaster** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:26 pm

It would depend on what size your expander was and how hard the bullets are and what kind of brass.

Spencer · Post by **Spencer** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:57 pm

top end wrote:I have been following the comments on how insufficient case expanding may contribute to 'sizing down' a projectile. I have been using lee dies (standard?) for years and lately dillon dies, and always wondered what the effect would be on the .314 projectiles I use. Well, I pulled some last night out of some fresh reloads and measured them. They measured the same as they went in, so I now doubt the conventional wisdom that undersize cases size down projectiles to any appreciable degree. I will note that these are home cast 98gn BNWC, with a very, very small roll crimp.

In extreme situations, I believe it can.
My experience some decades ago was with an older case-hardened inside/depriming die - after MANY thousands of reloads (I was relaoding for two of us who were doing a lot of shooting with .32s).
The accuracy out of my revolver was getting progressively worse with time, and the culprit turned out to be a worn out inside die. The soft, near pure lead projectiles lubed to .314 were sizing down to .311 by the cases.
A new die cured the problem.

mika · Post by **mika** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:52 am

I can't find the posting, but someone on this forum also measured his/her bullets after seating and extraction, and there was a clearly measureable difference. Top end uses cast BNWC, but a swaged HBWC can be much softer and the skirt will easily give in. I don't know how much difference it makes if only the skirt gets squeezed a bit, as it probably gets expanded again by the powder gases, but if the front end is inadvertently sized down, that will certainly hurt if the original diameter was an optimal one.

Mika

Spencer · Post by **Spencer** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:40 am

mika wrote:I can't find the posting, but someone on this forum also measured his/her bullets after seating and extraction, and there was a clearly measureable difference. Top end uses cast BNWC, but a swaged HBWC can be much softer and the skirt will easily give in. I don't know how much difference it makes if only the skirt gets squeezed a bit, as it probably gets expanded again by the powder gases, but if the front end is inadvertently sized down, that will certainly hurt if the original diameter was an optimal one.

Mika

Based on some recovered projectiles, I am not sure that commonly used .32 loads for ISSF 25m are going to positively expand the base of HBWC: for .38 driven at 850+fps it works. but for .32????

For pistols that need more than .312" projectiles, some of the recovered projectiles have marginal marking from the rifling.

At the other extreme, hard cast projectiles and thick walled brass are not always a good combination - I have had reloads that will not chamber as the projectiles have sized the case outwards (thank you whoever for factory crimp dies which will resize the case (and projectile) so that they will chamber)

David M · Post by **David M** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:05 am

If you go to this web site you will see the SAAMI specifications for the .32 SW long Wadcutter.
The bullet dia is 0.3150 - 0.0060
This means anywhere from 0.309 to 0.315, that is a huge size range.
Most die makers make the .32 dies to reload .312 proectiles so they resize the outside to .331/.332, depending on the brand of cases ( the wall thickness does vary a lot) you can end up with a internal size of .308. Then the neck expander must resize to suit your bullet diameter. Hence you may need a large or oversize expander.
Ideally you should only resize enough to rechamber with the minimal amout of neck expansion. Using .314 projectiles, resize to .335 (.002 oversize resizing die), neck expand to .314 (brass spring back will give you 0.001-0.002 undersize to hold the projectile) and minium crimp to remove flare.

http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Dr ... cutter.pdf

oldcaster · Post by **oldcaster** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:12 am

The statements Dave M wrote are exactly what my experiments proved also. When I bought the .002 thousandths larger die, my measurements said that I wanted a .003 larger but the 2 cost something like $30 and the .003 larger was $100. Either way, when we start talking .0005 or so difference we better be using the same micrometer or have just proven that both are within specs. I didn't measure the original die or the .002 larger, but I doubt seriiously if both of them are spot on exactly .002 different. My first thought after using it was that I wished that it was another .001 larger but I will work with it and then make a decision. For $100 I will put one of them in the lathe and make it larger. The biggest reason to not size the brass so much is so the expander won't be so hard to pull back out of the case and secondly to not work the brass so much. If I don't some way get the brass to the same measurements that Dave wrote, my accuracy will suffer. This is just another reason that a different barrel might be the best choice for the average person.

rstriano · Post by **rstriano** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:09 pm

For a total beginner using a walther 32 gsp totally overwhelmed by the details in these posts I have two questions

1. Is Fiocci and Lapua 32 ammo good enough as skills are built?

2. What would you suggest as a starting point to re-loading ? Expense is not an issue

Thank you for any help for this beginner

rstriano · Post by **rstriano** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:13 pm

For a total beginner using a walther 32 gsp totally overwhelmed by the details in these posts I have two questions

1. Is Fiocci and Lapua 32 ammo good enough as skills are built?

2. What would you suggest as a starting point to re-loading ? Expense is not an issue

Thank you for any help for this beginner

rstriano · Post by **rstriano** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:14 pm

For a total beginner using a walther 32 gsp totally overwhelmed by the details in these posts I have two questions

1. Is Fiocci and Lapua 32 ammo good enough as skills are built?

2. What would you suggest as a starting point to re-loading ? Expense is not an issue

Thank you for any help for this beginner

rstriano · Post by **rstriano** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:14 pm

For a total beginner using a walther 32 gsp totally overwhelmed by the details in these posts I have two questions

1. Is Fiocci and Lapua 32 ammo good enough as skills are built?

2. What would you suggest as a starting point to re-loading ? Expense is not an issue

Thank you for any help for this beginner

rstriano · Post by **rstriano** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:14 pm

For a total beginner using a walther 32 gsp totally overwhelmed by the details in these posts I have two questions

1. Is Fiocci and Lapua 32 ammo good enough as skills are built?

2. What would you suggest as a starting point to re-loading ? Expense is not an issue

Thank you for any help for this beginner

oldcaster · Post by **oldcaster** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:26 pm

If you are going to use factory ammo, I would certainly try the smallest quantity you can buy, but of course this goes for reloads too. I never make very much of anything until it is completely proven. My friend that gave me the 10 rounds of Lapua brought them because he knew that I was going to be testing. He made a comment when he gave them to me that he didn't use them and couldn't remember why. He thought they were excessively hot but if I remember correctly that was the Fiocchi that he used to shoot. The Lapua he had was bought from Champions Choice several years ago when it was sold cheap to get rid of them? I have a hard time believing that Lapua is that bad in all guns because we would be hearing about it everywhere. What I don't know is whether it was bad ammo or was it just bad in my gun. I have a feeling it shot pretty badly in my friends gun too and he just didn't remember that. I imagine that the Lapua was made with a bullet that was too small for our guns and I am not familar enough with them to know if they can be bought in different sizes. I think the most important thing to get out of this is that you just never know until you try it. When you start reloading, you can buy bullets in different sizes in small quantities to just try them to find out which works best for you, however I think that if you would just buy Lapua or Remington cases and H&N HBWC bullets in size .314 you are a long way there. The only other thing you may have to do is get a larger expander and if you do it is a good idea to get a larger die then also. The European guns seem to have all different size barrels but I doubt if they vary within a manufacturer. Someone on this site surely can tell you what size your barrel probably is. If I remember correctly my Benelli is .3135.

rstriano · Post by **rstriano** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:36 pm

So could you just give me a list of the requirements to start?

Bullets, type and size
Brass
Powder type and amount
Dies etc

I'll get a Dillon 650 I guess?

Thank you!

oldcaster · Post by **oldcaster** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:21 pm

For a start I would get either Lapua or Remington brass. I would go through them measuring length and don't use the ones that are way off average. For a bullet I would get H&N HBWC's in size .314. You can get them from Larry's in Maine or Roco. Since I use a powder that is not available I can't give you a load but check here with a search for what Dave Wilson uses for load and powder type and go with what he says. He has experience with a lot of different manufacturers guns and I only have experience with the Benelli.

I would use Dillon dies and have a tapered crimp seperate from the seating die. You will need the special small Dillon powder bar for the small amounts of powder. If your accuracy is not good, get an oversize by .002 die from Lee and see if you can get someone to make you a larger size and, longer front, expander for the Dillon powder drop. If you are loading for other calibers also you might consider the 550 instead of the 650 because of the time involved to change calibers. If however you think that you will make several thousand at a time between caliber changes the 650 is better.

The .32 is one of the trickiest calibers to reload for because different manufactureres use different sizes and this is why so much experimenting is going on. I think the 45 is the simplest and easiest to get accurate and a whole lot of loads will work well.

MFR · Post by **MFR** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:33 am

oldcaster wrote:If you are going to shoot the .312 bullet a standard set of Lee dies will work fine for you but if you have to shoot .314, I would buy the Lee .002 oversize sizing die so you don't work your brass too much and so you don't have difficulity expanding the brass large enough to hold the larger bullet. The Lee case expander is too short and tapered to work properly but if you are using the dillon, you will have a different one anyway. When you crimp, roll or taper you have to crimp enough to make the bullet feed and that is an individual preference depending on the gun. So don't crimp anymore than you have to to get reliability.

Where can I find the "Lee .002 oversize" tools?

//MFR

oldcaster · Post by **oldcaster** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:43 am

I had to call and I think the number I used was 262-673-3075. If this isn't right they will be able to direct you to the proper number. -- Bill --

oldcaster · Post by **oldcaster** » Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:50 pm

If I shoot Dardas cast, they will never swage down because according to my BHN tester they read 18 which is quite hard. I would rather use a BHN of less than 8 and H&N's are even lower than that. They will swage down. What was the BHN of your mix. -- Bill --