.32 S&W LWC dies

[mika]

Hi,

I've tried to dig everything on the site about .32 S&W Long reloading, but some questions especially regarding the dies remain.

For the .32, I'm going to use the Dillon RL550B that I use for the rest of pistol calibers (I mostly load .40 S&W and .45 ACP). I understand that in addition to the standard stuff (dies, toolhead, baseplate&pins, powder funnel/expander) I'm going to need an extra small powder bar. Basically, the easy way would be just to order the whole set from Dillon, but I'm somewhat wary of the dies, as the tiny round together with wadcutter bullets may pose some trouble to die sets designed for the traditional revolver rounds.

So the main question is, whether some manufacturer's dies are better suited off the shelf for wadcutter reloading than the others? The gun I'm reloading for is an MG4. My first batch of bullets is H&N hollow base wadcutters in .314, but I guess Lapua's products are also an alternative here, although somewhat more expensive.

Is the Dillon powder funnel/expander suitable for wadcutter loads? At least looking at the pictures, the cylindrical part is a bit short. If you need a separate expander die, then you either have to crimp with the seating die or leave the crimping to a completely separate stage, as the 550 only has four positions and one is fixed powder/expander.

Also, is the seater die in the .32 sets usually suitable for the wadcutter bullets? At least those I have for the "normal" pistol calibers have seaters with round or swc type truncated cone cavities.

Of course, it would be very nice to find a working die set, but I'm prepared to buy separate parts if necessary. I'm not quite sure if it will be easy to find a place to have special tools machined to order, as some people have suggested especially regarding the expanders.

Mika

[Rover]

Why don't you call Dillon? They're right down the road from me and have always been most helpful in response to questions.

The only guys using a Dillon to load .32s are probably International shooters.

[Tycho]

well, thanks for the compliment :-) i'm using a 650xl to load (among other stuff) .32s&w. the die set is a standard rcbs carbide, and i'm using a custom made cylindrical expander in station 4. this is imho (ymmv) an almost necessary addition to keep bullets from tumbling. otherwise, everything is out of the box, so don't worry your head off and start loading. i'd guess that every manufacturer knows that .32s&w will be loaded with wc, and not commonly with round nose stuff. there are no problems with the seater die. depending on your intentions, you might want to invest in a taper crimp die, although the mg4 likes to have some roll crimp. otherwise, it's one of the most ammo-uncritical 32s i've shot.

[mika]

Thanks, Tycho, maybe I'll do as you say and stop worrying and order the stuff. As to Rover's suggestion, that's probably another good advice, although I generally like to get independent opinions instead or in addition to that of the manufacturers. Of course, you never really know who is independent, but I think you get a pretty good picture reading the postings from different persons on this site over the years.

I really have to say TargetTalk has been an invaluable resource in many ways. And of course, that means the members just as much as the site and its providers. Actually, Tycho's (and quite a few others) postings significantly affected my decision to buy two Matchguns pistols (MG4 and MG2 ERF), which I'm very happy about. And many complaints by other members also enabled me to look at potential problems and understand the importance of test shooting the exact guns I was interested in. Yes, they are complicated things compared to almost anything else I've shot, at least as it comes to pistols (some machineguns and artillery pieces do compare...) and I'm sure I'll be asking for advice, but so far I just have to say they are absolutely enjoyable to shoot and gave immediate boost to my scores. Anyway, the thing here is that people who really have vastly greater experience in target shooting are ready to help others that are just starting with some aspects of the art, even if the questions are sometimes far below their own level and scope of interest.

Mika

[TonyT]

I used the Dillon 550 for reloding 32 S&W Long with lead WC bullets. Dillon offers a special expander for that bullet and the use of the extra small powder bar is required. I used the old Don Nygord load of 1.5 gr. WST with the 98 gr Speer LWC and the Dillon 550 performed flawlessly.

[IPshooter]

I used the Dillon 550 for reloding 32 S&W Long with lead WC bullets. Dillon offers a special expander for that bullet and the use of the extra small powder bar is required. I used the old Don Nygord load of 1.5 gr. WST with the 98 gr Speer LWC and the Dillon 550 performed flawlessly.

Tony,

Can you tell me a bit more about the special expander?

TIA

Stan

[jbshooter]

I used a parallel expander in an effort to eliminate tumbling (at 25m) but it didn't work.

[TonyT]

I used the Dillon 550 for reloding 32 S&W Long with lead WC bullets. Dillon offers a special expander for that bullet and the use of the extra small powder bar is required. I used the old Don Nygord load of 1.5 gr. WST with the 98 gr Speer LWC and the Dillon 550 performed flawlessly.

Tony,

Can you tell me a bit more about the special expander?

TIA

Stan

Stan
Dillon makes a extra long expander to properly expand the case for seating the long wadcutter bullets. The normal expander is short and snubbyu much like the one for 9mm Luger. I only found out about it when I called Dillon about some issue and their rep mentioned it to me.
Tony

[JamesH]

Do you have a part number handy for that expander?
Otherwise I'll just ask Dillon...

[TonyT]

Do you have a part number handy for that expander?
Otherwise I'll just ask Dillon...

I do not have apart number - just ask Dillon.

[Alex L]

A friend, 30 years ago, made me a 3 cavity brass die, with hollow base, 98 gram, flat nose, 3 gas check for good lubrication.
I have used this die for all my competition loads. I do the sizing and lubrication myself. It is made up to suit my gun - Walther
GSP, and I make 312 size projectiles.
I collect lead from the back of the range, and I use my electric lead pourer. I probably make 200 bullets per session.
The quality of the bullets have been checked, and it is important that you have very hot lead for good pouring. I suppose I have mastered it over many years of practice!
I have no problems shooting them over 25 metres. The accuracy is as good as the person who is putting in the time and effort to train!

I can still shoot a 95 if I train hard enough, and I am not a Spring chicken any more!!
However, my suggestion for you - don't waste your time making bullets if you can afford to buy them. If you can get quality projectiles to suit your gun, buy them. - Make sure your barrel is sized so you know if it requires 312, 313, or 314 projectiles.
It is easier to go to the range and practice than sitting behind a hot lead pot!
Alex L.

[buonvento]

I think you must buy a .32 wadcutter powder funnel (SW no. 13171), which is longer. I'd suggest a Uniquetek extra small powder bar also.

[oldcaster]

I use a home made expander in my Dillon because the others are too small. Mine is made to .3135. I also bought a .002 larger sizing die from Lee because I was sizing my brass too small. I got excellent results even at 50 yards using the H&N .314 and with Saeco 323 with the bottom two lube grooves filled with Saeco Gold. When I got my good results it was with a pull down powder called Russian Unique and it was 1.7 grains but since you likely can't come up with the same powder and I doubt if it makes much difference anyway, the important thing is that it was going 640 fps average. Another thing that was necessary for me to do to keep from having bullet tipping and flyers was to trim the brass. I was using a Dillon roll crimp die at the time and after being advised that a taper crimp die might make the trimming unecessary I got one and tried some untrimmed brass and trimmed brass. It did help me not to get wild flyers but even though the trimmed still outdid the untrimmed, neither were as good as the roll crimp with trimmed brass but much better than untrimmed with roll crimp. It is possible that the roll crimp causes trouble when the brass is not square in the front and that the length is not that important but with a roll crimp, if they vary much, you might get alibis. Another thing to consider is brass, because for me, I can get away with Lapua, R&P, or CBC and I can't even get my expander into a Federal case. All this being said, I have no idea how consistant the sizing dies are or how Dillon might compare to Lee on their idea of what the proper size is or whether your gun needs to have the brass sized and expanded large to make sure you don't swage down your bullet but be aware of all these things as you forge forward and it might make things easier for you. -- Bill --

[TonyT]

oldcaster's post reminded me that I also used a a Lee oversize sizing die for my 32 S&WL reloads. It allowed me to seat the bullets without oversizing the case. I was using the Speer 98 gr. HBWC at the time. I sold my 32 semi auto's five years ago and have not loaded 32 S&WL since then.

[mld]

Can anyone tell me if the SP20 is partial to a roll crimp or a taper crimp? A set of dies is $139 CAD and I'd prefer not to have to purchase two sets.

[mika]

Can anyone tell me if the SP20 is partial to a roll crimp or a taper crimp? A set of dies is $139 CAD and I'd prefer not to have to purchase two sets.

Sorry I can't answer your question, but just in case you end up making the wrong decision, you can buy only the crimp die.

Mika

[David M]

Most die makers have the taper crimp die available as a seperate die.
The Lee die has a modified crimp (a cross between taper and roll).
If you are loading HBWC and have sized for your bullet size then you will need very little crimp, just remove any neck expanding that you put on the case.
So you can use either crimp with little difference.

[TonyT]

Can anyone tell me if the SP20 is partial to a roll crimp or a taper crimp? A set of dies is $139 CAD and I'd prefer not to have to purchase two sets.

I used as et of Lee dies for loading the 32 S&WL and they are a lot less than $139.

[oldcaster]

If you are going to shoot the .312 bullet a standard set of Lee dies will work fine for you but if you have to shoot .314, I would buy the Lee .002 oversize sizing die so you don't work your brass too much and so you don't have difficulity expanding the brass large enough to hold the larger bullet. The Lee case expander is too short and tapered to work properly but if you are using the dillon, you will have a different one anyway. When you crimp, roll or taper you have to crimp enough to make the bullet feed and that is an individual preference depending on the gun. So don't crimp anymore than you have to to get reliability.

[top end]

I have been following the comments on how insufficient case expanding may contribute to 'sizing down' a projectile. I have been using lee dies (standard?) for years and lately dillon dies, and always wondered what the effect would be on the .314 projectiles I use. Well, I pulled some last night out of some fresh reloads and measured them. They measured the same as they went in, so I now doubt the conventional wisdom that undersize cases size down projectiles to any appreciable degree. I will note that these are home cast 98gn BNWC, with a very, very small roll crimp.