Hi all,
I'm two weeks into10m pistol shooting and I'm loving it. I bought a Webley Alecto http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Webley_Al ... istol/2238
thinking I would be shooting with two hands (cause I'd never be good enough to use just one..) and of course once I tried one handed, I've not looked back. I'm not unhappy with the Alecto (given my limited experience) but so many folks rave about the 46M. Should I go for the IZH instead of the Webley? My concern is largely all the comments I've read about O rings popping out, blowing seals, getting a "leaker". Kind of sounds like owning a Ferrari; great performance but constant hassles to keep running. Are the negatives overstated? I want to shoot, not tinker.
All comments welcome thanks.
IZH owners please chime in
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The negatives are overstated. I have direct personal experience with 6 different IZH 46m's, 3 of which belonged to the club (and thus saw a little more abuse and use). The ONLY issue you mentioned that I've seen (and had) is blowing out the O-rings from the breech and every case was directly related to not closing it fully.
There are many, MANY more owners who've never had an issue than those who have. You just get to experience the vocal minority when reading through forums and it makes it seem as though it's some huge issue.
FWIW, my circa ~2002 pistol is still on the original o-rings and seals. I broke one part (that cost $30 to replace) from being too aggressive when Opening the pump lever, and past that it puts pellets down range with absolute reliability.
Now, as for buying one vs using what you have? Chances are Very good that you have other issues related to being new to pistol shooting that are larger limiting factors. Can't help you there as I started with the 46m.
There are many, MANY more owners who've never had an issue than those who have. You just get to experience the vocal minority when reading through forums and it makes it seem as though it's some huge issue.
FWIW, my circa ~2002 pistol is still on the original o-rings and seals. I broke one part (that cost $30 to replace) from being too aggressive when Opening the pump lever, and past that it puts pellets down range with absolute reliability.
Now, as for buying one vs using what you have? Chances are Very good that you have other issues related to being new to pistol shooting that are larger limiting factors. Can't help you there as I started with the 46m.
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RandomShotz
- Posts: 553
- Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:24 pm
- Location: Lexington, KY
I bought the Izzy about a year ago - it was my first target pistol and it got me hooked. I don't think it is any more maintenance intensive than any other SSP type pistol. The people who have popped a breach seal out (mea culpa) have done so by not clicking the breech block all the way in place before firing. No big deal - there is no damage to the gun, and if you can find where the seal has flown/rolled off to it only takes a second to put it back in place. The gun comes kitted with a couple of extra seals anyway.
And if you want to take it down, it is very easy and there are a couple of web sites with complete instructions. (I'm not home now, or I'd post the links.) The one thing you will most likely have to do is modify the grip - it comes with plenty of lumber so it can be made to fit anyone.
You might want to go to the Pyramidair.com page:
http://www.pyramydair.com/p/izh-46M-mat ... stol.shtml
There are plenty of reviews there that will show you how people feel about this gun.
Good luck
Roger
And if you want to take it down, it is very easy and there are a couple of web sites with complete instructions. (I'm not home now, or I'd post the links.) The one thing you will most likely have to do is modify the grip - it comes with plenty of lumber so it can be made to fit anyone.
You might want to go to the Pyramidair.com page:
http://www.pyramydair.com/p/izh-46M-mat ... stol.shtml
There are plenty of reviews there that will show you how people feel about this gun.
Good luck
Roger
For yet another perspective on a couple of points... I've had mine for half a year and enjoy it thoroughly, in no small part because it's so trouble-free. I did initially blow the breach block seals twice - once on the first day, once on the second. LOUD! But I found the seals (one came out first time, both the second) and used a teensy drop of oil and pressed them back into place, no harm done but to my eardrums. It was a matter of learning to really click the thing home into its plainly visible groove. There's a little tongue of steel which has to click into a matching slot ahead of it, and it's a very snug fit, easy not to do if you're being wimpy. I actually polished those faces a couple of months later just to make it a slightly smoother operation. Doing that initially might help in avoiding the BANG.
I probably over-oiled mine the first few months out of paranoia. Under-oiling isn't so good, as performance of the valve gets funky, so I do about a drop into the breach hole every tin now and work the block and cocking lever to make sure it gets down in there. A second drop goes onto the piston seal with the arm all the way forward, about as often. The next 5 to 10 shots or so are a bit oily and slightly less accurate. Then I swab out the barrel with a couple of cloth patches and it's back to normal shooting. I put a drop of oil here and there on the joints of the cocking lever every couple of tins and that's about it for maintenance. Thing's built like a tank.
As for there being a lot of wood in the grip... well, that depends on hand size. I've seen that comment often, but for my hand the thing was tiny and felt all wrong. I added a lot of putty front and rear and side and did a bunch of carving on that and some on the web part of the wood before it felt right. Changed the angle to a much steeper wrist lock by carving out the mortise inside too. Then once I was happy, I carved a new all-wood, no-putty grip to match, sort of, with some final tweaks, and it's absolutely perfect for my hand now. Looks like a massive grip but it works for me. I've seen some carved down quite a lot from the original dimensions and they seem to work just fine for those with smaller hands. So your mileage may vary. The grip is the single most labour-intensive aspect of this pistol. Everything else is a matter of taste.
There are some threads here on reducing weight a bit, as it is among the heaviest of APs. What I've done is more like re-distribute the weight, putting a bit more up front and taking it off elsewhere so it's about original overall but balanced differently for more hold steadiness. Again, a matter of taste.
I wouldn't compare it to a Ferrari. More like a Volkswagen. Something which works out of the box and will keep on keepin' on for years just like that, but can be tweaked quite a lot to fit the owner's preferences. There are the odd reports about valve failures. Knock wood, so far no problems here. I know it's time to oil it when dry-firing the valve sort of sounds sluggish, dropping into place in two stages rather than a neat little clunk.
I probably over-oiled mine the first few months out of paranoia. Under-oiling isn't so good, as performance of the valve gets funky, so I do about a drop into the breach hole every tin now and work the block and cocking lever to make sure it gets down in there. A second drop goes onto the piston seal with the arm all the way forward, about as often. The next 5 to 10 shots or so are a bit oily and slightly less accurate. Then I swab out the barrel with a couple of cloth patches and it's back to normal shooting. I put a drop of oil here and there on the joints of the cocking lever every couple of tins and that's about it for maintenance. Thing's built like a tank.
As for there being a lot of wood in the grip... well, that depends on hand size. I've seen that comment often, but for my hand the thing was tiny and felt all wrong. I added a lot of putty front and rear and side and did a bunch of carving on that and some on the web part of the wood before it felt right. Changed the angle to a much steeper wrist lock by carving out the mortise inside too. Then once I was happy, I carved a new all-wood, no-putty grip to match, sort of, with some final tweaks, and it's absolutely perfect for my hand now. Looks like a massive grip but it works for me. I've seen some carved down quite a lot from the original dimensions and they seem to work just fine for those with smaller hands. So your mileage may vary. The grip is the single most labour-intensive aspect of this pistol. Everything else is a matter of taste.
There are some threads here on reducing weight a bit, as it is among the heaviest of APs. What I've done is more like re-distribute the weight, putting a bit more up front and taking it off elsewhere so it's about original overall but balanced differently for more hold steadiness. Again, a matter of taste.
I wouldn't compare it to a Ferrari. More like a Volkswagen. Something which works out of the box and will keep on keepin' on for years just like that, but can be tweaked quite a lot to fit the owner's preferences. There are the odd reports about valve failures. Knock wood, so far no problems here. I know it's time to oil it when dry-firing the valve sort of sounds sluggish, dropping into place in two stages rather than a neat little clunk.
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kevinweiho
- Posts: 947
- Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:44 pm
- Location: Costa Rica, Central America
I have had my MP46M pistol for almost a year now and i have not yet experienced any defects or seals blowing out.
I thought that my gun was defective when the loading gate did not pop up by itself when i cocked the lever, but it turned out that the parts were machined very tight and they needed a break in period. I then added some Moly grease on all the moving parts and with less than a tin of pellets, the pistol now runs smoothly.
Both pistols are great guns, and if you enjoy the Alecto for its oomph, you will truly enjoy the Izzy for its solid build, precision, and trigger.
Kevin
I thought that my gun was defective when the loading gate did not pop up by itself when i cocked the lever, but it turned out that the parts were machined very tight and they needed a break in period. I then added some Moly grease on all the moving parts and with less than a tin of pellets, the pistol now runs smoothly.
Both pistols are great guns, and if you enjoy the Alecto for its oomph, you will truly enjoy the Izzy for its solid build, precision, and trigger.
Kevin
I've had both pistols. The Webley is a fine plinker, nothing more. The "ergonomic" grip is quite nice, considering the price for the complete pistol is about the same of an aftermarket grip for a proper 10m pistol. And the power is definitely something to behold for something that compact.
For serious 10M shooting, the 46M is light years ahead, though. The only thing wrong on mine was the trigger shoe screw that had seized; had to drill it out and install a Steyr trigger blade. I sold it to "upgrade" to a Morini and I'm not shooting much better. I only upgraded for weight considerations (I have a chronic health issue).
Finish wasn't perfect but if you don't mind tinkering a little, it's a fantastic pistol that you'll own for your and your grandkids' lifetime. I actually regret selling mine!
For serious 10M shooting, the 46M is light years ahead, though. The only thing wrong on mine was the trigger shoe screw that had seized; had to drill it out and install a Steyr trigger blade. I sold it to "upgrade" to a Morini and I'm not shooting much better. I only upgraded for weight considerations (I have a chronic health issue).
Finish wasn't perfect but if you don't mind tinkering a little, it's a fantastic pistol that you'll own for your and your grandkids' lifetime. I actually regret selling mine!
I've owned one for 6 months. I am a casual bullseye shooter and this pistol has given me the opportunity to practice much more frequently by shooting in my basement. My fundamentals have progressed substantially since owning it.
It has been trouble free (2500 pellets). I have re-contoured the grip for my hand (still need to do more, but working slowly to not make a mistake).
I have no experience with the high dollar pistols, but this one exceeds my ability and expectations.
BTW had a tour of the factory in Izhevsk last September and got to see and test most of the guns in production inventory. Pretty amazing what they are doing with a mixture of old school and modern manufacturing techniques. The high dollar, hand-engraved sport rifles and shotguns exhibited a quality of hand work that costs 4 time as much in the West.
It has been trouble free (2500 pellets). I have re-contoured the grip for my hand (still need to do more, but working slowly to not make a mistake).
I have no experience with the high dollar pistols, but this one exceeds my ability and expectations.
BTW had a tour of the factory in Izhevsk last September and got to see and test most of the guns in production inventory. Pretty amazing what they are doing with a mixture of old school and modern manufacturing techniques. The high dollar, hand-engraved sport rifles and shotguns exhibited a quality of hand work that costs 4 time as much in the West.
Trouble free thus far
I have owned my46M for about 18 months and probably 2500 rounds of pellets. Mine has been delight to shoot and completely trouble free. I do have a Leupold 2X30 EER scope for mine but actually shoot it better with the standard sights.
The Izzy sights are very good sights. I shoot at 5 yards indoors but when outdoors shoot 10M and 25Y. It is really deadly on the 25 yard silhouette targets with either the irons or scope.
I also shoot a Daisy Avanti 753 with Anschutz aperture sights. The Izzy has no trouble at all hanging in there with the 753 at 10M.
Unlike the Webly the 46M is a true purpose built target gun. Good for a lifetime of shooting. Mine anyway.... I am 68 :)
Mike
The Izzy sights are very good sights. I shoot at 5 yards indoors but when outdoors shoot 10M and 25Y. It is really deadly on the 25 yard silhouette targets with either the irons or scope.
I also shoot a Daisy Avanti 753 with Anschutz aperture sights. The Izzy has no trouble at all hanging in there with the 753 at 10M.
Unlike the Webly the 46M is a true purpose built target gun. Good for a lifetime of shooting. Mine anyway.... I am 68 :)
Mike
love mine....I got it to practice bullseye pistol.....althought I just shoot as a hobby and post scores on internet shoots....Air Pistol has become a hobby in itself........this gun will out shoot me every time....no trouble at all .....I keep it oiled and clean and expect it to last a very long time.....Ive been useing the crossman silicone oil for the seals and o rings and a dry patch thru the tube every 100 shots or so keeps the barrel clean........I shoot @ 8 m in my basement with scaled down targets and if I do my part the gun is able to shoot clean 10's......I just wish more people made pistols of this quality and price......it would seem that as far as 10m's goes you buy a IZH-46m for $400.00 or something for $1800.00 or more .......the IZH-46m is a great pistol .....enjoy it...
Ditto... oops. I put roughly 4 sleeves (20,000) rounds through mine. Also ditto on ADDING material to the standard grip. It's not like I have huge mitts either, I wear a size 9 glove, which is an L in non-sized gloves. I wasn't real clear that I am the original owner of mine that was purchased just under a decade ago (er, it was a gift from my dad, but brand new regardless). It became a back-up in 2009, and used by friends/my wife since then.Gerard wrote:Since it does seem relevant to mention number of pellets put through the pistol in comparison to our experiences in terms of mechanical reliability, and since I forgot to do so, here that is;
Okay, thank you, point taken. I packed up the Alecto last night and will get the IZH. I bought it from Pyramid in large part because of their return/exchange policy; very confidence inspiring when shopping on the net. I'll continue giving them my pellet and target business. Thanks again for the replies, todd.