Personal best 577.
This year 563.
'been shooting AP for many, many years.
average score
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Re: Air in Australia
In Sweden there is only 3 grades 1, 2 (540+), and and 3 (560+)David M wrote:From previous posts I cannot believe that anyone who is shooting a 575 or better (in open competition) is not on their national team.
Here is a list of 20 highest results 2010 i Sweden (a wery small country)
575 is NOT a ticket to a international team.
http://web.lasson.nu/sportskytte/rankin ... rt_res.pdf
Kent
brag (I will be found among veterans 55-65) /brag
My results with AP over 1 year
My shooting results with air pistol Steyr LP 2.
Started shooting in May 2010.
I am from Belgium.
Started shooting in May 2010.
I am from Belgium.
- Attachments
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- Example shooting Results.xls
- New attempt!
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Last edited by Claude on Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reinhamre; your link gets me a 'domain not found' error - no other valid pages I've visited this morning are doing that, so it seems your link is not valid. I get the same error trying to access the root domain.
Claude; I've downloaded your spreadsheet file, but Softmaker Office 2010 gives me an error saying 'this file was created using an older version of Microsoft Excel' and it won't open.
As for this thread... firstly, it's interesting isn't it, how a conversation from almost 5 years ago can suddenly re-start? Perhaps in the days of on-paper letter writing, old school forums, similar things would happen but would take even longer.
And my own brief shooting history, in aid of expanding the database I suppose:
Started shooting AP on scaled 6metre targets at home in December 2010, and found it very difficult at the beginning to shoot higher than 50%. I was using a Gamo Center pistol, with a crookedly-mounted and slightly bent barrel, and as I eventually discovered, a rear sight post which was jumping around randomly during shots. I rebuilt the sight post area using metal fitted more firmly than the original plastic, made a better grip than the plastic original, made a new front sight block, modified the trigger, all through the next few months. Thanks to a lot of help from texts shared in forums (mostly the efforts of 'v76' in compiling these files in one place) and help from other forum members, my scores crept up as I trained:
December - 324
January - 440
February - 498
March - 528
In late March I decided that having taken the Gamo 'toy' pistol almost as far as I could, it was time to buy a proper 10m AP. Some of my groups with that pistol were quite good, well under 1" total diameter and mostly 9's and 10's, so by conjecture it seemed possible to score a 560 with it, eventually. But it was becoming torture, even after I straightened the barrel. So I bought an almost-new 46m and have since been modifying that to suit me rather well. I've figured out a way to shoot at the proper 10metre range at home, at least some times when no one else is at home, and am using ISSF targets rather than scaled 7metre targets for that. My scores were getting quite decent by May, but my work took over much of my attention for May and June and that's continuing, so I don't expect my results to improve for the moment until I'm able to get back to a 10 hour/week training schedule. Right now I'm able to manage about 5 hours per week. Enough to keep my hand in, and I'm studying a bit when there's time and working on dry fire and mental focus.
April - 543
May - 553 (twice)
June - 548
July (so far) - 545
My average dropped to about 88% when I took two weeks off, travelling to a convention and related work distracting me too much, and is now rising again, so that for the past 10 sessions it's been up to 88.49% and for the past few sessions it's been relatively easy to go to 535 or higher. It seems likely I'll be back on track by the end of this month, expecting a new personal best score before August. My expectation by years' end is to consistently shoot above 560.
A few weeks ago I shot at a club for the first time, and was so nervous that I shot a 507. It didn't help that I'd run to catch a bus, then run from the bus to arrive quite late for the session... and that very fine shooters were standing on either side of me scoring neat little groups target-after-target with their $2,000+ pistols. This past week I went again, and joined the club, and did much better with a less nervous session and a much better score. This coming week I'll go again, and it seems likely from my state of mind now that my score should be about the same as at home. Adapting one's awareness to a new environment is of course always challenging, but I'm a quick study. It will be interesting to see how I respond to shooting my first competition in the fall...
I don't see anything wrong with high expectations, with driving myself to improve rapidly. This discipline is proving fruitful in other aspects of my life as a form of meditation, of finding my 'centre' such that I am doing better work, playing the 'cello better, taking better care of myself physically than I had been without a focused goal. Some back in 2006 were decrying the 'bragging' nature of posting scores and talk of quick progress into the high 500's. I don't have a problem with this sort of thing, and that's because there's nothing wrong with sharing one's pride in having accomplished something of merit. Provided it's done in a good spirit, not stepping on anyone else's efforts, why not crow a little when we achieve or even exceed our goals? And of course the original question regarding beginning shooter's expectations for scoring was a useful one; it's important for novice shooters, such as myself, to have the data with which to develop a proper perspective.
One comment in this thread I found especially important - that the 10 points between 580 and 590 was dramatically more significant than 10 point jumps at lower scoring levels. This factor is beginning to show itself for me around the 540's already. Each new 10 point gain is taking significantly greater effort than the one before. That is to be expected, logically, but the degree to which this happens at higher scores is something important to share. It seems an exponential pattern, with each point becoming more and more significant as one goes up. Focus on the basics and on the subtle interplay of mind-body awareness, technique, mental attentiveness, are hugely exaggerated as one approaches the upper reaches of possibility. The achievable score for any given shooter will vary, so it is important not to speak in absolutes - nonsense like 'if you can't shoot over 540 you should give up shooting' has no place here. Shooting is a test of skill and training and dedication, sure, but it's also a worthwhile pursuit in its own right. Look to Zen archery for instance. Scores are not kept there. Form, state of being, these become the goal. I happen to enjoy shooting for score, and have no problem with counting every target I shoot, although at times I do shoot without scoring a target or even a few in a row and just watch the groups after paying more attention to my form.
So I'm glad to see this ancient thread revived. Perhaps it can continue in a positive spirit. I know that my own shooting in 10m Olympic style AP would not even exist were it not for forum discussions on CAF and here, and that my progress so far would not be nearly so gratifying were it not for the encouragement and coaching offered by other shooters in these forums.
Claude; I've downloaded your spreadsheet file, but Softmaker Office 2010 gives me an error saying 'this file was created using an older version of Microsoft Excel' and it won't open.
As for this thread... firstly, it's interesting isn't it, how a conversation from almost 5 years ago can suddenly re-start? Perhaps in the days of on-paper letter writing, old school forums, similar things would happen but would take even longer.
And my own brief shooting history, in aid of expanding the database I suppose:
Started shooting AP on scaled 6metre targets at home in December 2010, and found it very difficult at the beginning to shoot higher than 50%. I was using a Gamo Center pistol, with a crookedly-mounted and slightly bent barrel, and as I eventually discovered, a rear sight post which was jumping around randomly during shots. I rebuilt the sight post area using metal fitted more firmly than the original plastic, made a better grip than the plastic original, made a new front sight block, modified the trigger, all through the next few months. Thanks to a lot of help from texts shared in forums (mostly the efforts of 'v76' in compiling these files in one place) and help from other forum members, my scores crept up as I trained:
December - 324
January - 440
February - 498
March - 528
In late March I decided that having taken the Gamo 'toy' pistol almost as far as I could, it was time to buy a proper 10m AP. Some of my groups with that pistol were quite good, well under 1" total diameter and mostly 9's and 10's, so by conjecture it seemed possible to score a 560 with it, eventually. But it was becoming torture, even after I straightened the barrel. So I bought an almost-new 46m and have since been modifying that to suit me rather well. I've figured out a way to shoot at the proper 10metre range at home, at least some times when no one else is at home, and am using ISSF targets rather than scaled 7metre targets for that. My scores were getting quite decent by May, but my work took over much of my attention for May and June and that's continuing, so I don't expect my results to improve for the moment until I'm able to get back to a 10 hour/week training schedule. Right now I'm able to manage about 5 hours per week. Enough to keep my hand in, and I'm studying a bit when there's time and working on dry fire and mental focus.
April - 543
May - 553 (twice)
June - 548
July (so far) - 545
My average dropped to about 88% when I took two weeks off, travelling to a convention and related work distracting me too much, and is now rising again, so that for the past 10 sessions it's been up to 88.49% and for the past few sessions it's been relatively easy to go to 535 or higher. It seems likely I'll be back on track by the end of this month, expecting a new personal best score before August. My expectation by years' end is to consistently shoot above 560.
A few weeks ago I shot at a club for the first time, and was so nervous that I shot a 507. It didn't help that I'd run to catch a bus, then run from the bus to arrive quite late for the session... and that very fine shooters were standing on either side of me scoring neat little groups target-after-target with their $2,000+ pistols. This past week I went again, and joined the club, and did much better with a less nervous session and a much better score. This coming week I'll go again, and it seems likely from my state of mind now that my score should be about the same as at home. Adapting one's awareness to a new environment is of course always challenging, but I'm a quick study. It will be interesting to see how I respond to shooting my first competition in the fall...
I don't see anything wrong with high expectations, with driving myself to improve rapidly. This discipline is proving fruitful in other aspects of my life as a form of meditation, of finding my 'centre' such that I am doing better work, playing the 'cello better, taking better care of myself physically than I had been without a focused goal. Some back in 2006 were decrying the 'bragging' nature of posting scores and talk of quick progress into the high 500's. I don't have a problem with this sort of thing, and that's because there's nothing wrong with sharing one's pride in having accomplished something of merit. Provided it's done in a good spirit, not stepping on anyone else's efforts, why not crow a little when we achieve or even exceed our goals? And of course the original question regarding beginning shooter's expectations for scoring was a useful one; it's important for novice shooters, such as myself, to have the data with which to develop a proper perspective.
One comment in this thread I found especially important - that the 10 points between 580 and 590 was dramatically more significant than 10 point jumps at lower scoring levels. This factor is beginning to show itself for me around the 540's already. Each new 10 point gain is taking significantly greater effort than the one before. That is to be expected, logically, but the degree to which this happens at higher scores is something important to share. It seems an exponential pattern, with each point becoming more and more significant as one goes up. Focus on the basics and on the subtle interplay of mind-body awareness, technique, mental attentiveness, are hugely exaggerated as one approaches the upper reaches of possibility. The achievable score for any given shooter will vary, so it is important not to speak in absolutes - nonsense like 'if you can't shoot over 540 you should give up shooting' has no place here. Shooting is a test of skill and training and dedication, sure, but it's also a worthwhile pursuit in its own right. Look to Zen archery for instance. Scores are not kept there. Form, state of being, these become the goal. I happen to enjoy shooting for score, and have no problem with counting every target I shoot, although at times I do shoot without scoring a target or even a few in a row and just watch the groups after paying more attention to my form.
So I'm glad to see this ancient thread revived. Perhaps it can continue in a positive spirit. I know that my own shooting in 10m Olympic style AP would not even exist were it not for forum discussions on CAF and here, and that my progress so far would not be nearly so gratifying were it not for the encouragement and coaching offered by other shooters in these forums.
Claude; I got a 'some formulas could not be loaded' error this time, but at least the spreadsheet opened, thanks. It looks like you have come up very steadily over the past year, gaining 40 points or so in average from May 2010 to this past May. Feels good to see that climb, eh?
Have you tried making a line graph of these numbers? I use a simple chart in Planmaker which tracks the scores I dump into the first column below it, and find it offers an easier overview of my progress than looking at the numbers themselves. I input scores as a percentage, and have a second 'trendline' which projects 'potential' scoring progress as a sort of average of all previous scores for this year. It's been pointing to about 92.5%, or a score of 555, for about 2 months now. Part of my goal is to beat that trendline's prediction. It feels helpful to have some sort of competitive spirit wherever I can find it, even if it's just competing against a graph, both in ultimate outcome and in trying to keep the charted values as steady as possible with very few jumps downwards.
Have you tried making a line graph of these numbers? I use a simple chart in Planmaker which tracks the scores I dump into the first column below it, and find it offers an easier overview of my progress than looking at the numbers themselves. I input scores as a percentage, and have a second 'trendline' which projects 'potential' scoring progress as a sort of average of all previous scores for this year. It's been pointing to about 92.5%, or a score of 555, for about 2 months now. Part of my goal is to beat that trendline's prediction. It feels helpful to have some sort of competitive spirit wherever I can find it, even if it's just competing against a graph, both in ultimate outcome and in trying to keep the charted values as steady as possible with very few jumps downwards.
Great read
As a new shooter I found this topic very interesting, and the thread a great read lol. It was nice to know that I am pretty much dead smack in the middle of the curve :) Just as a side; it's been like 5 years since some of the original posters wrote and was wondering how Axel has done? Did he make the Swedish team? Would be interesting to know how far his steep learning curve has taken him to date. I have seen some incredible talent out of the box in the Trap discipline. A 15 year old winning the state shoot. He was going strong till he discovered the fairer sex lol, but he still has it in him. well getting off topic ;)
Training scores
A competitive shooter in the early 70's with powder burners,
3 pistol, I then did no shooting until 2006, just rifle. Pistol started
2010 with webley nemesis. Bought Izzy 46M january 2011. Doing
the NRA Distiguished Expert program now. Just completed the expert level.
Had a two month layoff due to izzy repair. The improvement from 486
to 522 is quite challenging. The original numbers you posted are about
right for what I experienced.
I am a casual shooter, varied practice, maybe two hundred GOOD shots a week.
Next goal 10- 600's above 522. Then 550. Then maybe competition.
Do more serious training. I am 63.
3 pistol, I then did no shooting until 2006, just rifle. Pistol started
2010 with webley nemesis. Bought Izzy 46M january 2011. Doing
the NRA Distiguished Expert program now. Just completed the expert level.
Had a two month layoff due to izzy repair. The improvement from 486
to 522 is quite challenging. The original numbers you posted are about
right for what I experienced.
I am a casual shooter, varied practice, maybe two hundred GOOD shots a week.
Next goal 10- 600's above 522. Then 550. Then maybe competition.
Do more serious training. I am 63.
It's funny how common wisdom doesn't always apply.
I was a ~540 average shooter May of 2009. I took off shooting (completely, no dry firing, no picking up a gun of any kind, not even really thinking about it) for 16 months. Picked up my pistol again 2 weeks before a match in October of 2010 and shot a 549 in that match. My muscles were Burning through that match because I was so out of condition for shooting. I trained maybe 5 hours a week for the next month and shot at the Winter Airgun and averaged 548.something over the 3 days. Spent the next 2 weeks training maybe 10 hours a week and shot a personal best of 561 in a match.
Err... so, within 2 months of coming off a 16 month break, I shot 15 points higher than my average when I was training Much more consistently, AND it was a personal best? Doesn't follow the "common sense" pattern of "train more/harder, get results", does it?
I know what happened... I went from being too serious and Trying too hard, to just relaxing and having fun.
Based on 'practice' scores, I know I'm capable of shooting in the high 580's, I just have to get out of the way of doing it (mentally
FWIW, I was a Jr rifle (.22 and air) state champion in the early 1990's, so I had a good handle on the mental side of shooting when I returned to competitive shooting after taking off from 1993~2006. I'm now 37.
I was a ~540 average shooter May of 2009. I took off shooting (completely, no dry firing, no picking up a gun of any kind, not even really thinking about it) for 16 months. Picked up my pistol again 2 weeks before a match in October of 2010 and shot a 549 in that match. My muscles were Burning through that match because I was so out of condition for shooting. I trained maybe 5 hours a week for the next month and shot at the Winter Airgun and averaged 548.something over the 3 days. Spent the next 2 weeks training maybe 10 hours a week and shot a personal best of 561 in a match.
Err... so, within 2 months of coming off a 16 month break, I shot 15 points higher than my average when I was training Much more consistently, AND it was a personal best? Doesn't follow the "common sense" pattern of "train more/harder, get results", does it?
I know what happened... I went from being too serious and Trying too hard, to just relaxing and having fun.
Based on 'practice' scores, I know I'm capable of shooting in the high 580's, I just have to get out of the way of doing it (mentally
FWIW, I was a Jr rifle (.22 and air) state champion in the early 1990's, so I had a good handle on the mental side of shooting when I returned to competitive shooting after taking off from 1993~2006. I'm now 37.
air pistol scores
Here is a link to the NRA national indoor air pistol championship and the scores there.
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/secpdf/open-ap-11.pdf
I didn't figure out the average or median score, but it is telling that the three top shooters in the country got 574-581 and the junior woman champion got 534. This is all from competitors who are serious enough to travel across the country for a match.
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/secpdf/open-ap-11.pdf
I didn't figure out the average or median score, but it is telling that the three top shooters in the country got 574-581 and the junior woman champion got 534. This is all from competitors who are serious enough to travel across the country for a match.
In annexe my updated beginners file (with graphs).
Beginner AVG .
Beginner AVG .
- Attachments
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- GrafiekeSchietcompetitie.xls
- New updated file (with Graphs)
- (341.5 KiB) Downloaded 140 times
Excellent information in this old thread
Gerard wrote :
"As for this thread... firstly, it's interesting isn't it, how a conversation from almost 5 years ago can suddenly re-start? Perhaps in the days of on-paper letter writing, old school forums, similar things would happen but would take even longer."
Though not likely, perhaps my mention of it in a recent post helped? I found a lot of interesting information within the thread to start, and see there have been some added recently as well. I have enjoyed following your posts on this board as you have progressed.
We are in the midst of a nasty heat wave here on the East Coast ( I am in the USA) and I decided to attempt my first 60-shot shooting. My air pistol is a Crosman Custom Shop "1740 Target", .177 caliber. I used Gamo Match Wadcutter that had been weighed. Now since I know my shortcomings, namely that I tend to shake too much, need to work on the locked wrist and some times I jerk unintentionally (convulsive muscle reaction) it makes shooting fun. LOL That said, I have been enjoying the 10-Meter, one-hand Bullseye type shooting as it is something I never really learned to do.
I shot 12 targets (5 pellets per) and came away with a score of 357/600. That lack of practice prior to doing this, I believe, showed. Sometimes my targets (10/target) that I shoot for an online Match are a little more grouped around that black bull than they were today. Time will tell what will happen when I try it the next time. 8)
"As for this thread... firstly, it's interesting isn't it, how a conversation from almost 5 years ago can suddenly re-start? Perhaps in the days of on-paper letter writing, old school forums, similar things would happen but would take even longer."
Though not likely, perhaps my mention of it in a recent post helped? I found a lot of interesting information within the thread to start, and see there have been some added recently as well. I have enjoyed following your posts on this board as you have progressed.
We are in the midst of a nasty heat wave here on the East Coast ( I am in the USA) and I decided to attempt my first 60-shot shooting. My air pistol is a Crosman Custom Shop "1740 Target", .177 caliber. I used Gamo Match Wadcutter that had been weighed. Now since I know my shortcomings, namely that I tend to shake too much, need to work on the locked wrist and some times I jerk unintentionally (convulsive muscle reaction) it makes shooting fun. LOL That said, I have been enjoying the 10-Meter, one-hand Bullseye type shooting as it is something I never really learned to do.
I shot 12 targets (5 pellets per) and came away with a score of 357/600. That lack of practice prior to doing this, I believe, showed. Sometimes my targets (10/target) that I shoot for an online Match are a little more grouped around that black bull than they were today. Time will tell what will happen when I try it the next time. 8)
Wow,
Not sure I want to jump into this thread, but it's obvious some of you have vast experience. I'm brand new to shooting 10m, although I have plenty of rifle experience, and just wanted an honest opinion on whether I have any talent for this or not.
In June I got hold of a Baikal 46M, shot about 100 shots with it, then tried to shoot a 60 shot match, 10 shots per target, in the allowed time (I did research the rules and use the proper targets). That day I shot a 464. I sent that gun back because I thought it was too front heavy. Next I tried an Air Arms Alfa Proj because it seemed like the perfect combination of features for the price, and shot a 444, then a 475 for my 3rd ever round. How do these scores with this much experience fall into the realm of this sport? Does it sound like I have any potential? I'm asking because there is no one here who is into air pistols even though we have a very active rifle club with national caliber shooters. Bottom line, I guess I'm just looking for either some encouragement, or even-headedness to not spend any more money on something I stink at.
Thank You For Your Response,
Richard
Not sure I want to jump into this thread, but it's obvious some of you have vast experience. I'm brand new to shooting 10m, although I have plenty of rifle experience, and just wanted an honest opinion on whether I have any talent for this or not.
In June I got hold of a Baikal 46M, shot about 100 shots with it, then tried to shoot a 60 shot match, 10 shots per target, in the allowed time (I did research the rules and use the proper targets). That day I shot a 464. I sent that gun back because I thought it was too front heavy. Next I tried an Air Arms Alfa Proj because it seemed like the perfect combination of features for the price, and shot a 444, then a 475 for my 3rd ever round. How do these scores with this much experience fall into the realm of this sport? Does it sound like I have any potential? I'm asking because there is no one here who is into air pistols even though we have a very active rifle club with national caliber shooters. Bottom line, I guess I'm just looking for either some encouragement, or even-headedness to not spend any more money on something I stink at.
Thank You For Your Response,
Richard
Hi Scrench,
just my 0,02cents, imho,
you are too novice to the sports to appreciate any differents between pistol.
Baikal 46m is first class target pistol plenty capable of scoring 570 and up.
I think you must train with the same pistol at least as you reach 540-550 level, then maybe you can think about pistol or equipment.
just my 0,02cents, imho,
you are too novice to the sports to appreciate any differents between pistol.
Baikal 46m is first class target pistol plenty capable of scoring 570 and up.
I think you must train with the same pistol at least as you reach 540-550 level, then maybe you can think about pistol or equipment.
After a year and a half
Don't remember scoring more than 85% at the state level competition with my IZH 46m before the last few years. Decided to go the whole hog and bought the Steyr Lp 10 with the ball bearing trigger. Firs state competition score 501/600, I wrung my hands in despair as my pistol did not shoot tens automatically, went to work correcting this flaw. Practiced three days a week regularly for the last eight or so months. Trained more intelligently, instead of just shooting matches. Last State competition score was 541...shot a 550 during practice last weekend. Pshew...corrected my Steyr's inability to shoot tens automatically...yeah...whipped it into shape...now if only my shoulder would stop aching. :-).
Regards,
Dev
Regards,
Dev
Dev,
But... what if you had practiced with that quality and intensity with the Izzy? I've read over and over about people who buy a better gun but don't improve their scores very much or at all, and then after some intensive practice do get better, but again, what if they had put that much effort into their original guns? LukeP seems to think you can shoot 570 or so with an Izzy. Probably a better gun just makes it easier to shoot good scores, but does that really justify the expense? Does a lazy guy with a great gun shoot about the same as a guy who practices his butt off with a lousy gun?
But... what if you had practiced with that quality and intensity with the Izzy? I've read over and over about people who buy a better gun but don't improve their scores very much or at all, and then after some intensive practice do get better, but again, what if they had put that much effort into their original guns? LukeP seems to think you can shoot 570 or so with an Izzy. Probably a better gun just makes it easier to shoot good scores, but does that really justify the expense? Does a lazy guy with a great gun shoot about the same as a guy who practices his butt off with a lousy gun?
Last month I tried 10 shots with the lever of my Izzy rested on a sand bag, just out of curiosity. Shot a very tidy 99 with average hitting about 10.4. That is open sights, and not being all that careful in sighting, just shooting when alignment looked about right. This pistol can shoot a 594 at least.