Hey shooters,
I've been shooting with KurtThune second hand suit for 2 years, so its not as stiff as it used to be, plus the size is a bit larger.
I'm looking for a new custom made suit that provides more support and stability than my current KT.
I've been reading alot about Monard & Kustermann. But I'm not sure how they are compared to my KT Xpert.
Most shooters in my club are using KT suits & I've noticed that most of the custom made jackets are not exactly curved around the waist area. While Monard and Kustermann jackets seem to have so called : "anatomically cut", which looks more suitable for female shooters than the KT.
Monard have 4 different models of suits. Kustermann have 7 different models! I really couldn't make up my mind so any advice is very much appreciated.
Thanks ;)
Monard / Kustermann VS Kurt Thune
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
Jenni
If you can stretch the money go for a made to measure especially if you are female, I think its important. I have a Monard made to measure and its perfect for me. Its 3 years old now and still very stiff. You can do it all by mail order/on line, because you can down load the measurement chart. Never fold a jacket and always hang it up on a strong coat hanger at home.
Kustermann are very good as well but so are KT made to measure. Check out the Stenvaag Fusion clothing as well.
JSB
If you can stretch the money go for a made to measure especially if you are female, I think its important. I have a Monard made to measure and its perfect for me. Its 3 years old now and still very stiff. You can do it all by mail order/on line, because you can down load the measurement chart. Never fold a jacket and always hang it up on a strong coat hanger at home.
Kustermann are very good as well but so are KT made to measure. Check out the Stenvaag Fusion clothing as well.
JSB
I have used both Monard and KT and found the opposite. Monard fits me like a tube while KT follows my body's contour. This only includes made to measure. (since I have never used a prefabricated suit, I don't know if that changes anything)
EJ
I agree. Also, if something goes wrong with a measurement, the manufacturer will probably not fix it if you did it yourself. In my case, all jackets and one pair of pants have had to be adjusted to fit properly and since the measurements were made by the company it has been free of charge.RobStubbs wrote:I think the key is getting someone who knows what they're doing to take the measurements. If you only have one manufacturers agent near to you then that's probably the decider - unless you're happy to travel.
Rob.
EJ
I just switched to a Monard Standard coat and pants set that was made to measure. So far I've had good results following the switch from an off the rack Gehmann coat. At the first match using the new coat the equipment inspector had to recheck the stiffness of the material to make sure it passed. Following that I saved the inspection form and sticker in case I have any further problems. I don't have any experience with any other brands but so far my experience with Monard coats, pants, and gloves have all been positive based on materials, craftsmanship, and service.
Vinny
Vinny
There's little point in saving the form, it will be retested regardless. My shooting jacket failed the stiffness test, but that's often the case when new. 10 mins or so 'softening' it over a wooden bench made it pass, and it's passed ever since (and now has the ISSF test tag fixed).Vincent wrote: At the first match using the new coat the equipment inspector had to recheck the stiffness of the material to make sure it passed. Following that I saved the inspection form and sticker in case I have any further problems.
Vinny
Rob.
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Jenni
JSB
Rob
EJ
Vinny
Thank you for your helpful replys.
The problem is we don't have a dealer near us, usually the coaches take measurements for the Kurt Thune suites only.
following your advice I think I'll go for a made to measure KT suit, since the club is more familiar with.
I'm not sure why I want to change to another brand. I just think that KT may not fit me best. But my suit was not made to measure me so I may be wrong.
Thanks alot again :)
Jenni
Rob
EJ
Vinny
Thank you for your helpful replys.
The problem is we don't have a dealer near us, usually the coaches take measurements for the Kurt Thune suites only.
following your advice I think I'll go for a made to measure KT suit, since the club is more familiar with.
I'm not sure why I want to change to another brand. I just think that KT may not fit me best. But my suit was not made to measure me so I may be wrong.
Thanks alot again :)
Jenni
We ordered a custom Monard jacket for my daughter back in November when we were in Colorado Springs. Shawn at Try & Bom did a fantastic job of measuring my daughter and she is quite happy with the fit.
I am not sure where you live at or if you ever get a chance to go shoot in Colorado Springs but if you can I would recommend that you go see him. He measures, re-measures, and then measures again to make sure.
Really the key is measure, measure, and measure again. Rob is correct in saying that you need someone who knows what they are doing when measureing. I am sure that either maker will work well for you. Hope this helps.
I am not sure where you live at or if you ever get a chance to go shoot in Colorado Springs but if you can I would recommend that you go see him. He measures, re-measures, and then measures again to make sure.
Really the key is measure, measure, and measure again. Rob is correct in saying that you need someone who knows what they are doing when measureing. I am sure that either maker will work well for you. Hope this helps.
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Albert B
Softening jacket
Rob, you mention softening the jacket on a wooden bench. Most people look for a stiff jacket, but I read about a test done by the Scatt people that suggested that a stiff jacket helps a novice shooter with less balance but that a topshooter is better off with a less stiff jacket that has a perfect fit around the body. They also mentioned that a stiff jacket transports the pulse to the rifle while a soft jacket will not do that.
So how do you soften the jacket (what way-what parts) while remaining a good relation between stiffnes and shape.
Thanks,
Albert B The Netherlands
So how do you soften the jacket (what way-what parts) while remaining a good relation between stiffnes and shape.
Thanks,
Albert B The Netherlands
Yeah, i'm not sure how you soften a jacket over a wooden bench, sounds really weird. I aggree with the last post, a stiff jacket does help a new shooter. It can be stiff and legal, if tested.
Its interesting to note that jackets used for all 3 positions get softer quicker for obvious reasons than when its just for standing. Some international shooters I have seen have a standing jacket only and another slightly softer jacket for prone and Kneeling. Nice if you can afford it.
JSB
Its interesting to note that jackets used for all 3 positions get softer quicker for obvious reasons than when its just for standing. Some international shooters I have seen have a standing jacket only and another slightly softer jacket for prone and Kneeling. Nice if you can afford it.
JSB
Surely not at the same competition:JSBmatch wrote:... Some international shooters I have seen have a standing jacket only and another slightly softer jacket for prone and Kneeling. Nice if you can afford it.
JSB
7.4.6.2.1 Only one (1) shooting jacket, only one (1) pair of shooting trousers and only one (1) pair of shooting shoes may be approved by Equipment Control for each shooter for all rifle events in any ISSF supervised Competitions / Championships...
Re: Softening jacket
Albert,Albert B wrote:Rob, you mention softening the jacket on a wooden bench. Most people look for a stiff jacket, but I read about a test done by the Scatt people that suggested that a stiff jacket helps a novice shooter with less balance but that a topshooter is better off with a less stiff jacket that has a perfect fit around the body. They also mentioned that a stiff jacket transports the pulse to the rifle while a soft jacket will not do that.
So how do you soften the jacket (what way-what parts) while remaining a good relation between stiffnes and shape.
Thanks,
Albert B The Netherlands
If the jacket is too stiif to pass EQ, you either soften it or don't compete. Some of the canvas panels on my KT jacket failed the stiffness test and I had to soften it up a little. Basically dragging the panels over the arm of a wooden bench was enough to soften it slightly. It is still stiff but legally stiff.
I'm suprised more people are not familar with people softening their new jackets. It's quite a common sight at our ISSF meetings to see folks manipulating their jackets to make them legal. Thankfully it's only the stiffness bit I've seen failures on - thickness would be more of a problem.
As a slight aside, you will also sometimes see people cutting jackets and trousers on ocassion - in Munich for the world cup, some rifle shooters were cutting off belt loops because they were failing (my German isn't good enough to know on what).
Rob.
I bought a Monard coat last year at Camp Perry the right elbow is almost worn through already. Byron will be there and I will be able to tell how there customer service is then.LOL Funny thing was the coat showed no wear till I started using there mat. But I love there mat. It is the best on hard surfaces.
Doug
Doug
Spencer, your right, it was a non ISSF international I saw a couple of shooters change the stiff canvas in standing to a soft leather for prone.
I personally think its a good idea, but not allowed under ISSF rules.
I wonder what the deal is if your jacket had a major structural failure such as a seam coming un stitched during a match, would they allow you to use another jacket?
JSB
I personally think its a good idea, but not allowed under ISSF rules.
I wonder what the deal is if your jacket had a major structural failure such as a seam coming un stitched during a match, would they allow you to use another jacket?
JSB
Most people I know (including myself) do not try to keep the jacket as stiff as possible. I treat it badly in the beginning to soften it up and make it fit. When I do like how it feels I start to treat it better, but it can go on for a long time. I find a stiff jacket to be annoying and working against me. If I could I would not buy a new jacket (but unfortunately I am older and bigger nowadays, it did last 10 years though!). Still, 1y after the last purchase, the KT jacket is not perfect -but getting there.
I treated my new jacket kindly...and then the equipment control people at the British sniggered at the stiffness values and I had to go away and do the bench trick :(
I show up to any matches which have EQ with a full set of screwdrivers, scalpels, and a hammer, and generally someone needs to borrow most of them at some point. I had to cut the inside panels out between the buttons of my daughter's jacket the first time she shot under ISSF rules - the double layer of leather was too thick, ever though it was nowhere near the stiffness limit.
Jenni, I'm female and have a MTM KT jacket, largely because the off-the-peg KT jackets fitted me much better than the off-the-peg Monard ones did so I was more confident about it. (I was measured by someone who is a dealer for both).
I show up to any matches which have EQ with a full set of screwdrivers, scalpels, and a hammer, and generally someone needs to borrow most of them at some point. I had to cut the inside panels out between the buttons of my daughter's jacket the first time she shot under ISSF rules - the double layer of leather was too thick, ever though it was nowhere near the stiffness limit.
Jenni, I'm female and have a MTM KT jacket, largely because the off-the-peg KT jackets fitted me much better than the off-the-peg Monard ones did so I was more confident about it. (I was measured by someone who is a dealer for both).
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RobinC as Guest
My wife has a Monard MTM, we used the measurements as requested and sent off the order. Monard queried some of the measurements by e mail and sent suggestions as to how to measure and recheck, i.e the back by putting a ruler under each arm pit and measureing between, we rechecked and sent them off. The supplied jacket is an excellent fit (and for the ladies they will do lurid colours as well!)
She did have a problem with the side suede panel wearing with elbow contact in standing after six months, apparantly pink suede is not always very strong! No questions, Monard made her a new jacket and after a years hard use it is still fine.
She heartily recomends Monard.
Robin
She did have a problem with the side suede panel wearing with elbow contact in standing after six months, apparantly pink suede is not always very strong! No questions, Monard made her a new jacket and after a years hard use it is still fine.
She heartily recomends Monard.
Robin
Hi
Robin, I remember you telling me about the pink suede wearing. I can also vouch for the Monard jacket as I have a MTM and have used it now 4 years and its still stiff. The only modification I did was to fit flat metal buttons with hex drive threaded screws and large washers. I tried it in all 3 positions and it was very comfy in all although the kneeeling took a bit of getting used to. I have put weight on recently and had to re position the buttons.
Great jacket
JSB
Robin, I remember you telling me about the pink suede wearing. I can also vouch for the Monard jacket as I have a MTM and have used it now 4 years and its still stiff. The only modification I did was to fit flat metal buttons with hex drive threaded screws and large washers. I tried it in all 3 positions and it was very comfy in all although the kneeeling took a bit of getting used to. I have put weight on recently and had to re position the buttons.
Great jacket
JSB