Buttplate moving in prone

WesternGrizzly · Post by **WesternGrizzly** » Mon May 16, 2011 6:19 pm

I am having an issue with my prone and kneeling position. When I reload the rifle the buttplate moves in my shoulder. In order to correct this I have to push my buttplate back into my shoulder every shot. This causes NPA inconsistancy and is the biggest issue for me in prone right now.
Has anybody had this happen to them? Have you fixed it? If so how?
Matt

Pat McCoy · Post by **Pat McCoy** » Mon May 16, 2011 9:58 pm

I was never able to reload without taking the rifle completely out of my shoulder (short arms), but found this to be a good way to be sure the position was feeling the same every shot. I think rebuilding the position of the buttstock can be a positive, as I've had too many athletes reload without removing the rifle and find the buttplate has moved after several shots without their being aware of it (leading to inconsistent npa). This is an ongoing discussion from several years ago.

Turn your thoughts about it from a negative to positive.

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Tue May 17, 2011 2:19 am

As Pat I too have to move the gun out of position to reload. I don't think that's a bad thing though, you just need to practice relocating the butt in the same place every shot. If you're having problems, it could point to a poorly fitting buttplate (?)

Rob.

Eric U · Post by **Eric U** » Wed May 18, 2011 1:46 pm

While I can reload without taking the BP out of my shoulder...I physically seat the BP/hook into my shoulder/arm-pit each and every shot. Been doing this since I don't know when and it seems to work. I have very consistent NPA, for both elevation and windage. For whatever your ails your position, if you do it the same every shot you will come out ahead.

Eric U

Brenda Lightner · Post by **Brenda Lightner** » Wed May 18, 2011 3:41 pm

Eric,
I notice you use the 1813 style stock for your prone shooting. Which buttplate do you use and do you use it reversed without the tail or the regular way. It looks like you have the Anschutz hook with the five screws down the side. Thanx Terry

WesternGrizzly · Post by **WesternGrizzly** » Wed May 18, 2011 3:55 pm

Thanks for the advice.
While at the Rocky Mountain match I watched you shoot prone Eric. I did notice that you do the same thing as I do. But my NPA is anything but consistent. It moves around all over the place and is really annoying.

I use the TEC-HRO buttplate if that makes a difference.
Matt

Pat McCoy · Post by **Pat McCoy** » Wed May 18, 2011 10:36 pm

Westerngrizz,

Put a piece of tape on the floor where your right elbow is when you shoot, then make sure to get it back in the same place after reloading. If taking the rifle out of the shoulder to load, this is the most often item I've seen done wrong after remounting the rifle.

Eric U · Post by **Eric U** » Wed May 18, 2011 11:21 pm

I just use the older style 1813/1913 buttplate on my 1813 stock. It has the two prongs and a threaded rod sticking into the butt of the rifle. My style has the threaded rod offset from the two solid rods. Not to be confused with some of the 14 and 16 series Anschutz that had all three in a line.

I use it the way it was meant to be used...right side up and with a hook.

Eric U

justadude · Post by **justadude** » Thu May 19, 2011 9:55 am

Grizzly,

A few thoughts from my own experience, first the disclaimer, on and off I have shot for about 40 years with everything from the rubber puck, and the fixed “one size fits all 60s vintage Anschutz hook to these days a MEC Free Position. Sometimes I think the most comfortable butt arrangements were the rubber puck borrowed from a 1407 attached to the back of a 1413. The hardware setups available today make it difficult to do that anymore.

I have approached the “butt hook in prone” with the theory that the better the hook fits the shoulder the less variability in its location there will be. In studying the hook and the shoulder problem the issue I have always had with the hook was that it seemed to come out of the buttplate at the wrong place. If you look at most hooks, everything is done on a vertical line. The MEC Free Position is this way and the TEC-HRO (Fusion?) uses a similar design. Very two dimensional.

The problem I note is that my shoulder is not built on a straight line. On the shoulder there is the crease between two major muscle groups where the buttplate naturally wants to fall. For me this crease does not line up leading directly to the armpit. I have always felt the hook needed to be offset to the right (yes I am a right handed shooter) some small amount for the plate to fall naturally in the crease of the shoulder and the hook to fall in the apex of the armpit. This cannot be accomplished by simply swiveling the hook.

On and off I have tinkered with the hook in three dimensions where it can not only swing but slew or offset. I have attached pictures of an Anschutz plate I modified about 1984 with a stub hook and the hook offset to the right. I came to the conclusion the offset was about twice what I wanted it to be with no way to make it smaller. This enters the picture of the current setup on my MEC where rather than having the hook scoop upward I have it set to swing out right then left, somewhat accounting for the difference between the crease between the muscles in the shoulder and the apex of the armpit.

I don’t know about the adjustments of the hook on the TEC-HRO you are using. It looks like you might be able to work it with an offset right where the hook is attached to the main assembly. Perhaps there are some points to be gained there.

Hopefully this gives you some ideas for a line of investigation.

As a side note, Interestingly, I see that Maennel has a buttplate that will do almost exactly what I am talking about. Not that I am going to run out and buy one today, or tomorrow, but it is interesting to see this adjustment is commercially available.

Cheers,
‘Dude

Dave IRL · Post by **Dave IRL** » Thu May 19, 2011 5:23 pm

I use a System Gemini buttplate that allows me to turn and twist just about everything into the right orientation which results in a sort of narrow S shape more or less, with the bottom of the plate turned slightly to allow the hook to swing around and out.

havardma · Post by **havardma** » Thu May 19, 2011 5:24 pm

justadude: Actually I've seen MEC has released an addon to the free position butt plate to allow what you want this year. I've not tried it myself though.

You can see it on page 17 in their new catalouge
http://news2011.mec-shot.de/

Not the cheapest piece of metal, but what shooting equipment is...

justadude · Post by **justadude** » Fri May 20, 2011 12:41 am

havardma,

That is a way cool little gizmo. Thanks for pointing that out.

69 Euro, yeah they are proud of that little gizmo but what the heck, I think I have to have one.

(Actually at present conversion rates the cost in US $ will be less than two bricks of practice ammo.)

Thanks,
'Dude

NikNak · Post by **NikNak** » Tue May 24, 2011 11:13 am

I have found that the hook curling back around my armpit can cause issues. I also have a large defined crease between my deltoid & collarbone. This requires my buttplate to be offset by about .25" and angled away from barrel center by about 5-7 degrees. I used to use the AHG skeleton butt with the monkey tail straight out so there was no coat/armpit contact, but when a friend of mine held his left hand buttplate up to my skeleton buttplate, the angles were a perfect match, so from then on, I have been using a LH buttplate on my RH rifle. It works for me, but I am 6 foot, have rather long arms, broad shoulders and my muscle structure can vary quite a bit over a 6 month time frame.... depending on the current work load, or home gym work. If I were leaner and had a smaller frame, I am sure I would leave the butt centered on the barrel and would be inclined to use the original buttplate design as they came with the Match 54 design years ago ....

I also have to re-set the hook on each shot. It is a part of my shot process.

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