New to Forum ... Anyone have .32 S&W long experience?

[pinbuster]

Well,

I finally made it outdoors with the Walther GSP-C to see how it would shoot at the 50 yard line. I was using factory Fiocchi 32 S&W long wadcutters. It took me the first 20 shots of slow fire to roughly center the group on the target (had to move the sights up and right about 5 clicks or more, if I remember right) Some of the bullets were definitely starting to tumble, and it caused me a little bit of confusion/delay when attempting to adjust the sights. After getting the group roughly dialed in, I went ahead and stopped scoping for the 3rd string of slow fire, and just fired off my 2 strings of 5 in a timed fire rhythm. Of the 10 shots, 2 definitely started to tumble. You could see where 8 of the wadcutters had cut a nice clean hole in the paper/cardboard and were well placed on target, but the 2 that deviated showed where the wadcutter punched a hole but left a skid mark where the bullet had started to tumble over in that direction. The direction of tumble also was not uniform - One of them tumbled over and flew out to the 7 ring (location was down and left, tail of bullet was rotating up and right). One of the shots flew out to the 6 ring (location was up and right, tail of bullet was rotating down and left). All-in-all, I still scored an 87 for the target, but am going to send out an email to Dave Wilson to start the process of getting a fast-twist barrel so it will knot up at 50 yards as well as 25 yards.

Later, Jeff

[Rover]

Try light bullets or non-hollow base (shorter). They stabilize better with a slow twist.

[ghillieman]

Hi Old Caster,

Just a thought here, but.

Redding makes a carbide neck sizing collet for their neck sizing dies. You should be able to mic the od of a fired case buy a few of Reddings collets around that diameter. Maybe .001 or .002 less that the od of a fired case, that would allow you to true your cases and keep the same diameter. Brass will usually spring back at 1 or 2 thousandths.

Anyway take that carbide collet to a machine shop and tell them you want a die made, what is it 7/8in diameter with 14 thread, that will allow you to use that collet and have a piece that screws down on top to keep it in place and be switched out.

I use these dies for NRA Hi-Power, once I lock the neck sizer in I turn back just a little to let it move around freely and center its self on the cases neck.

Just a thought, good luck.

[oldcaster]

That sounds like a good idea. Sometime this next week, I am going to shoot some more loads out of my stock barrel to see what I can accomplish. I casted up some real hard (25BHN) 80 grain magnus bullets that are .314 so they won't swage down in the brass. Someone also gave me a barrel that was from a .308 military barrel that they chambered in 32 long. I slugged it and it was a bit uneven but I will try it because it has a faster twist ( 1 in 10) I think. If that barrel is actually better because of the twist then I will come up with something of better quality and .312. I have some old National HBWC's that are .310 so they will work in the .308.

[GOVTMODEL]

I've been hearing a lot that .32's just wont perform at 50yards, that they dont have enough "oomph". ... I think much of the problem is that the longer bullets of the 90-100gr varities are not being stabilized by the barrels twist rate. A lighter/shorter bullet should be used.

You're correct; it is the twist. As mentioned earlier in this thread, most folks who are serious .32 S&W Long shooters get a barrel with a 10-inch twist.

[Rover]

If you're really hard core, you can fire-lap that .308 barrel and even it up.
It would certainly be the cheapest way to go since you already have the barrel.

[oldcaster]

Rover I think it would take a rat tail file to correct that military barrel. It makes the bullet kind of flat on one side. I didn't check to see if a bump is doing it or if it is cut that way all the way through. Either way, several of us have a .312 ordered from Pac Nor and it will be quality. The only thing we haven't decided yet is how long to make them. We only shoot bullseye so it doesn't have to fit in the box and we might go 5 or 6 inches instead of 4.

[fc60]

Greetings,

The Walther GSP-C "usually" has a groove diameter of 0.314". I suggest purchasing some H&N 0.314" 100 grain HBWC and loading them with 1.6-1.7 grains of Winchester WST, Lapua brass, and Winchester Small Pistol Primers. You should be able to get ten ring accuracy at 50 yards on the NRA target.

Custom barrels with quicker twists, 1-10 thru 1-14, help stabilize the bullet better and barrels with smaller groove diameters, 0.308"-0.311", allow the use of Speer HBWC with good results. Carefully loaded ammunition will often produce X-ring size groups at 50 yards.

Cheers,

Dave Wilson

Shooter and fabricator of fine 32 barrels.

[oldcaster]

Dave, I'm shooting a Benelli and have attained 10 ring 10 shot groups with several different bullets at 50 yards but they are just barely 10 ring and I can't count on not having a flier either. A Dardas .314 wadcutter with 1.8 of Trailboss or 1.7 of a surplus powder called Russian Unique has probably been my most consistant. The Trailboss throws terribly inaccurate and has a wide E.S. even if I weigh all charges but is still fairly accurate. I thought of trying the H&S bullets because they are HB and in my opinion that is an advantage. They had better shoot good for the price, but who waid this sport is cheap.

[fc60]

Greetings,

The H&N bullets are expensive. However, they do group rather well at 50 yards.

The best groups I ever fired were with hand cast bullets from an RCBS 98 WC mould sized 0.314" and lubed with NRA 50/50 grease.

Twenty shots fired from a Haemmerli SP-20 barrel at 50 yards could be covered with a quarter. I believe I used Lapua brass and 1.67 grains of WST.

The point I want to illustrate is that if you cast your own bullets you have control of the process. By carefully examining each bullet for visual defects, weighing the bullets, and sizing them without throwing them into a box at random then finally loading them with great care you can get good results.

The downside is barrel leading. I have yet to find a combination of Lead alloy and bullet grease that does not foul the barrel excessively.

Cheers,

Dave

[oldcaster]

There is no doubt that it is possible to make a better cast bullet than one can buy, but to make HBWC's, that's another story. I have more than accomplished molding quality bullets for the 45 and 38 and am sure that I can do it for the 32 also. I haven't tried the RCBS because I thought it might be too heavy without more twist and was thinking of getting a custom mold about 55-60 or so. Recently someone gave me some 70 grain 38's from a Lee mould. I didn't have much confidence but thought they might be OK for 50 feet. I tried them in the RR at 50 yards and was surprised with a 10 shot group around 4 inches. I didn't work up a load but just guessed so it probably could be better and have shot quite a few 148gn. molded wadcutters which were way worse in several guns. I agree with the Lapua cases or at least the RP or CBC. THe FC cases are too tight unless possiby with a bullet smaller than .312. I have tried a lot of different powders, some of which aren't even listed and there doesn't seem to be a lot of difference other than reliable drops from powder measures. The 38 with 158 grain round or SWC was a challange and so is this 32.

[jbshooter]

I've got one of each of these, use them both for 25m ISSF centrefire. The factory test targets are markedly different (I'll try and scan them in tomorrow), the Benelli one has a large group spread, the Walther one has overlapping holes. For me the Benelli is a natural pointer, straight at the target on every lift, and therefore my first choice. The Walther is a bit of a battle due to upright grip, I always need to search for the front sight, time's nearly up by the time I find it. Would the Benelli factory test target be the best group that gun can produce or do you think it could be improved upon with reloading trials. I've tried light loads, heavy loads, 90gr hornady hbwc, 98gr lapua hbwc, VV310, WST, ordinary primer, magnum primer, cylindrical expanders, even weighing powder for each case individually. I still get flyers, even after following everyones recommendation on this website. Has anyone had similar experiences with the Benelli MP90S World Cup.

[jbshooter]

Here is a copy of my test targets. Didn't come out very well but you can see where the bullets printed. Any comments on the Benelli target would be welcome.

[jbshooter]

Here is a better result in colour.
Does anyone have better Benelli test targets or is this one fairly typical.

[fc60]

Greetings,

I am sure Walther use a mechanical fixture to test their barrels. I have never been able to duplicate the factory results using a Random Rest.

Not sure what to say about the Benelli. Perhaps it was fired from a sandbag rest?

I have attached a test target fired at 50 yards of a fast twist barrel I did for a fellow Benelli shooter. This group was a result of using a mechanical fixture.

Cheers,

Dave

[Maj Tom]

I have a 1:10 twist bbl made by Dave Wilson-it shoots less that 1.75" at 50 yards. I tried Lapau,Speer and cast DEBBWC.All weigh in between 98grs and 100grs. My brass is Rem. I tried BE and N310 powder.Powder charge is critical. I settled on 1.35 grs of N310-there are others.Fast powder seems to work pretty well. With the fast powders-low charges,1.2 to 1.7grs,seem to be the key.Start low and test out at 50 yards.I settled on Speer,HBWC, bullets.Regards

I too have one of Dave's barrels on my Walther. Pwdr charge is critical! I use a Lyman 1200 to dispense and then double check with a beam scale for the long line. For the short line I just load via the progressive. I use Vit N310. I've used the Haendler & Natermann 100gr HBWC sized .312 with good results. I also cast 84gr WC from old RCBS moulds. These work very well from the short line. I haven't had the opportunity to do any series Ransom Rest work for a long line load. My guess is they are to light. Just my penny and a half....

[oldcaster]

JB Shooter, My Benelli will shoot a lot of different loads like your test target and some better at 25 but at 50 yards--well-- I have shot 5 shot groups when just going to the range to get a velocity starting point for a powder that are X ring but when coming back, the story is different especially when you shoot 10 or 15 shots. The problem is compounded by the fact that a Benelli won't fit in a RR. The scope mounts are the narrow air gun type and are prone to slipping a lot also having to do with the fact that the gun recoils straight back. Consequently it is hard to tell if the bad group is scope mount oriented or gun. I blame mostly gun. The group Dave had for 10 shots is excellent. Any gun that will hold X at 50 ten in a row is quite competitive, especially if it can do it consistantly. If I am not successful, I will be calling him. As of late, I can't get to the range to test it without something breaking. -- Bill --

[jbshooter]

I'm now looking at maching the body of a GSP barrel to fit the MP90 Benelli. I too believe the gun should be able to shoot better.

[pinbuster]

I have been shooting a Walther GSP-C for my bullseye CF gun over the last few months. At 25 yards, indoors, it is fabulous on the reduced slow-fire target and timed/rapid targets. With the outdoor matches, I have ventured to the 50 yard line with the pistol. Last month, with the stock barrel, I had about 2 out of 10 shots that were fliers, veering well off target to the 6 or 7 ring and leaving a bit of an oval hole in the target at the 50 yard line.

I got to try out a demo barrel from Dave Wilson on my GSP-C this past weekend for the first time at the 50 yard line. I was a bit slow dialing in the sights, but by the third slow fire target, I posted a 92-2x, and could definitely tell that the fast-twist barrel had added some stability to the bullets. I didn't have any fliers, and get to try it again this upcoming weekend at the Maryland Outdoor State Pistol Championship.

I guess it follows that I didn't notice any accuracy loss at the 25 yard line, and cleaned my first timed fire target with a 100-6x.

Those results were with the Fiocchi .32 wadcutter retail ammo, which is not the preferred ammo for the barrel. I am still trying to get a hold of some tailor made .32 closer to Dave's recipe to realize its full potential.

[oldcaster]

I finally had a chance to try the .308 barrel in my Benelli. I only got to try 30 shots because my extractor flew out. I suppose the extractor groove touched the extractor and needed to be filed out more. Regardless, the three loads I tried were not impressive. One thing that was different is that the groups were generic not having tight clusters and flyers but evenly distributed. All three were about 7 inches at 50 yards for 10 shots. I am going to not shoot at 50 again until the Pac Nor barrel comes in. Now I just have to decide whether I should go 4 inches or 6 inches. I also feel that making the case larger to keep from swaging the bullet down has made no difference either. I did order a Mihec HBWC mold in .314 from the group buy at Cast Bullets forum but I imagine it will be 8 months minimum before I get it knowing how those things go.