bullseye wheel guns

keeper · Post by **keeper** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:54 am

Have decided to go old school for bullseye. The question is, i'm currently using a S&W 617 with a 4 inch barrel, and an not happy with the results. Last week i borrowed a friends Mod.17 with a 6 in. bbl and gained 50 points. I know that longer sight radius helps when using iron sights. So going to an 8 3/8 inch barrel have an advantage? Or will the pistol be to muzzel heavy. Never have handeled the longer barrel what would recomend.

ghillieman · Post by **ghillieman** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:46 am

If I may, I would suggest a .38 revolver that fits the rules of the Distinguished Revolver program. Almost any 6 inch barrel or less factory revolver will qualify. Check it out, it will allow you to shoot in more matches and compete for the distinuished revolver badge.

keeper · Post by **keeper** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:26 am

Distinuished revolver is my goal. For centerfire I'm shooting a model 27 and for 45, a mod 25. both with 6 inch barrels, and my scores with both those revolvers are ok. My problem is with the 22. My scores with the 617 that has a 4 inch barrel are dismal. I borrowed a Mod. 17 with a 6 inch barrel and my scores were much better. Now i'm wondering if the longers sight on a 8 3/8 inch barrel would improve my scores farther? Or would the difference in balance with the longer barrel be more of a detriment? Having never handled a 8 3/8 inch revolver my question goes out to the forum. Have other shooters shot the longer barrels and what was your experience? Thanks

ciscovt · Post by **ciscovt** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:18 am

Keeper,
I have a 6" K22 and I happen to have an 8 3/8" Model 17 that my father gave me. Personally I find the longer barrel to be very unwieldy and overly nose heavy. I don't see the longer sight radius to be a plus at all. I have actually been thinking of either shortening the 8+" back to 6" or re-barreling it to 6". My father also has an 8 3/8" model 27 which is beautiful, but what I think of as strictly a 2 handed shooter.

ciscovt

keeper · Post by **keeper** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:56 pm

That was my thinking. The 8 3/8 barrel would be clunky, Not a very handy revolver at all. There must be a reason that the 6 inch barrels are so popular. Another is to send my 617 back to S&W for a new 6 inch barrel and possibly a 10 shot cylinder. must be cheaper then a new 617? Thanks for the reply

Rover · Post by **Rover** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:57 pm

Make sure they return the parts to you. Folks here will buy them. Or, you can put them back on if you realize you screwed up.

Fred Mannis · Post by **Fred Mannis** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:34 pm

Have you measured groups from the 617 and 17 from a rest? The difference in your score may not be simply the longer barrel. I have a 617 and have been disappointed in its grouping from a rest. I have sent it back to the factory for a tuneup, but still am not all that happy with the results. It has a heavy 6" barrel and is a fun gun to shoot, but I wouldn't rely on it for 50 yd BE. I suspect it is more difficult to get precise cylinder-barrel alignment with a 10 round cylinder.

keeper · Post by **keeper** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 3:40 am

Yea i know what your saying. A revolver without lots of tuning will never match the accuracy of a fixed breach pistol then add on the advantage of a dot sight. But at this point I'm shooting against myself. Like yourself I was disapointed with the benched accuracy of the 617. I tryed 3 different types of ammo wolf, cci std. velocity and eley pistol match at 50 ft WITH a 5 powed scope and nothing would hold the 10 ring! Even my friends S&W 22A could do that from the bench at 50 ft. Perhaps i'm searching for something not obtainable, Any way the Mod 27 and 25 shoot like champs and I think I could be competitive with the 27 when shooting a distinguished revo match, This season will tell. Anyway, I think i will still go ahead with my plan of searching for a 6 inch mod 17. Tim

Fred Mannis · Post by **Fred Mannis** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:31 pm

I don't hink any of the new S&W production can come close to the quality of those old M17/K22 revolvers. I once owned a Colt Officers Model Target in 22 cal. and I still regret selling it.

kle · Post by **kle** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:28 pm

I use a 4" 617-4 (10-shot, MIM parts) for .22, and I do just fine. I even shoot with the cheap Federal bulk-pack ammo I buy from WalMart. I am using a red-dot sight, though, so I don't have any issues with sight-radius. Eleven months ago, I was shooting the same 617-4 with a 6" barrel and red-dot sight and I shot pretty well, too. I had S&W put a 4" barrel on it last Fall since I think it balances better than the full-lug 6" barrel, and I'm just now getting back up to where I can shoot like I did last year (it's like learning a whole new gun, plus my grip preference changed from K-square w/ round-to-square conversion grips to N-round with round-butt grips and wood putty to fill in the gap at the top).

The longer barrel length not only increases sight radius, but also makes the gun heavier and moves the center of gravity closer to the muzzle. Those help in Bullseye shooting because the greater weight/mass of the gun will mean the gun is less affected by little movements (like heart beat and the wind), and I'd argue that the gun will have moved less under recoil by the time the bullet exits the longer barrel than with a shorter one.

There's a point, however, where a long, heavy barrel stops being helpful. For instance, I have a 5" 625 with a red-dot (which I used for CF and .45 last year) that was just right for me. I considered trying my 6.5" 610 for CF, and even without optics, the extra 1.5" of barrel (and thicker material of the barrel, due to the smaller bore), it was just too heavy to hold one-handed for more than, say, ten seconds before needing to rest.

I wonder if the difference you saw in your scores -- surely having something to do with the different sight radii -- would also be due to the differences in grips between the two guns. Maybe the 6" no-lug barrel balances better for you? Maybe the grips on that gun work better for you?

There are lots of variables involved aside from barrel length.

keeper · Post by **keeper** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:35 am

In the past week I purchased a used Mod.17 from the internet. It should arrive monday, and with any luck I'll shoot it at our weekly match on Tues.
I changed the grips in the 617 to the factory magnas and a tyler T grip. Well i shot my highest score yet.
When i borrowed the Mod 17 from a friend the grip combination was the same. So was it the grips that were the problem? I guess I'll find out on Tues. Anyway off to a 2700 today The weather should be great "Life it good" Tim

ghillieman · Post by **ghillieman** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:48 pm

Hey Keeper, just to let you know for distinguished revolver you cant compete with a 8 3/8 barrel. they have to be 6 in or less. I would definately go with a 6 in no matter what.

I've been shooting a Colt Officers Model Match 6in barrel. Great gun, great trigger, good foward weight. I've got a 50 yard center with a 94-4X using that gun. However, knowing what I know now I would spend my money on a Colt Diamondback and get more foward weight.

Same gun as the Colt Python, but chambered for .38spl only.

keeper · Post by **keeper** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:55 am

For centerfire and 45 I'm all set. Shooting a Mod. 27 6 Inch 38 Spl. for centerfire and my attempt at distinuished Revo. A Mod 25 6 inch for 45. The Mod 17 6 inch barrel, coming my way on monday will hopefully round out the trio.
Had a nice day yesterday. Shot my first outdoor 2700. The weather was great.( after the weather we had in northern NY this season) great turnout. And I Had fun!!
With any luck i hope to have the new to me, Mod. 17 all ready to shoot on Tuesday evening.

keeper · Post by **keeper** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:01 pm

OK, the saga of the model 17. Last tues evening, got my new to me mod 17.
Slow fire "with 5 or 10 rds load" ok load up. "is the line ready?" targets turn. get into position, take aim......fire, look through scope...10 take aim.....fire, 10 take aim again....fire,8 then a 7 then another 8 NICE this revos. a shooter.
Open the cylinder, push out brass......hollly crap, 5 bulged split 22 LR cases. Could it be? a 22 mag cylinder. so i load 5 more rds and complete the course of fire. same bulged split cases. and this goes on through the rest of the night.
I end up shooting a 705 which tied my top score with the 617 and it was the first time i had shot the revolver.
Now what to do. When i got home i chambered a 22 mag. and sure enough it fit. I really like the revolver. so i e mail the person i got the gun from and he was appoligetic, said he was not aware bla bla bla and did offer to return my money. But i really like the revolver. So here's what i did. I had a spair 617 cylinder and in about 1 hour fit it to the new mod 17.
function fired it, everything seems ok. So this Tues evening ,Take two????? "As the wheel gun turn" Stay tuned
One other thing, Can some one share some load data for a 38 spl load for disinguished revolver i'm not having much luck in getting a good 50 yd load Thanks

ghillieman · Post by **ghillieman** » Fri May 20, 2011 5:05 am

I cast 158gr. RN with a RCBS mold
lube and size to .358 with a star lubesizer
load with 3.5gr. Winchester Super Target
and roll crimp on the crimp grove.
Very good accuracy.

Beware of buying cast bullets for this game. I bought some that worked good at 25 and tumbled at 50.

Orpanaut · Post by **Orpanaut** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:02 pm

Here is the practice load I've been using for Distinguished Revolver:

Bayou Bullets 160 grain coated round nose*

4.2 grains IMR Trail Boss

Winchester Small Pistol primer

Winchester cases

I seat the bullets to an overall length of 1.553" and crimp with a Redding profile crimp die.

* The coated bullet is not legal for actual DR matches. I use it because I do most of my practice shooting at an indoor range that doesn't allow plain lead bullets.

This load shoots very well at 50 yards from my 6" S&W 586. I doubt that the case and primer make much of a difference.

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