european guns showing true colors

[ghillieman]

Really????? They are crap because of a broken extractor?????

Thats like saying a Ferrari is junk because their brake shoes wear out.

Lets just call it for what it is.

The Euro .22's are tempermental, they are built for a specific purpose and that is winning matches. This requires a little extra care. They are not designed to be tossed around a truck on a camping trip as are Rugers and Buckmarks. If you want rugged and reliable get a Ruger, If you want a 3/8 inch 10 shot group at 50 yards get a Pardini, or Morini, or Walther, on and on....

The big problem is that people are used to shooting high velocity fodder from Wal-Mart and feed these works of art ammo that wears them out fast. You wanted a target gun, so shoot target ammo.

I appreciate your patriotic and nostalgic view on .22 handguns for bullseye, I think old Victors are beautiful, but your above statements are not exactly correct.

[Wiley-X]

Now that isnt to say that a Buckmark or a Mk 2 or 3 isnt competitive in bullseye. After a trigger job and maybe a new barrel you should be able to turn in some respectable scores, I did it.

I used to shoot with a fellow who shot an unmodified Mark II, even the stock plastic grips. He was classified as a Master. He got a Hammerli something or other and his score went up two points on average so he gave it away and went back to the Ruger.

[Wiley-X]

In general, American guns are designed to be lifetime guns. Robust and strong like a quarterhorse. Euro guns are like thoroughbreds, pretty but finicky and shot lived. They have lots of tiny parts that wear and break.

Probably much of it is a cultural difference and attitude toward recreational shooting.

[ghillieman]

I used to shoot with a fellow who shot an unmodified Mark II, even the stock plastic grips. He was classified as a Master. He got a Hammerli something or other and his score went up two points on average so he gave it away and went back to the Ruger.

So his scores IMPROVED, hahahaha. 2 pts matter a lot when your running 880-890.

Question: Why are the National's not being won with revolver's and iron sighted 1911's anymore?

Answer: Because it's being won with better equipment.

It doesn't matter what game yourshooting, Bullseye, Hi-Power, Smallbore Prone, Silhouette, ect., I always hear these stories recounting feats of marksmanship. They usually start with "Well, old so and so" or "You know this person won shooting a ......." Great shooters indeed, but people use these stories as a crutch too often. There is nothing wrong with shooting a Mk II or a Buckmark. But if you want to shoot 850+ with ease, get ya some better equipment.

[bentrod]

Well, *clears throat*, Mr...Hill987 you bring up a good point.


But, it wasn't until I stumbled upon a used Pardini SP that my scores really climbed. My personal best is an 881-45X, with that cheaply made foreign non 1911 conversion hunka junk.
.

I was looking at Pardinis, can they be scoped? It doesn't look like there is enough room on top of the barrel.

[ghillieman]

Hi Bentrod,

Yes the Pardini can be scoped/red dot. It has a weaver type rail milled into the top of the reciever. However, I believe the new ones have to have a seperate scope mount. Check them out at www.larrysguns.com, but search for a good used one.

[Chris]

For the Pardini you need to get a special set of rings for it. The weaver type rail spacing is not standard. Larry's has them you can order.

If more people shot irons you would still see people winning at Perry using irons. Many think dots are better and easier to shoot better scores.

My primary is a 208s, back up is Pardini SP, and my last choice is the Hi-standard which does not leave the safe normally.

[JamesH]

In general, American guns are designed to be lifetime guns. Robust and strong like a quarterhorse. Euro guns are like thoroughbreds, pretty but finicky and shot lived. They have lots of tiny parts that wear and break.

Probably much of it is a cultural difference and attitude toward recreational shooting.

Are you going to win a F1 race in an F1 car or on a John Deere tractor?

[william]

In general, American guns are designed to be lifetime guns. Robust and strong like a quarterhorse. Euro guns are like thoroughbreds, pretty but finicky and shot lived. They have lots of tiny parts that wear and break.

What a great generalization! I guess it explains all the quarterhorse Hi Standards with cracked frames, many of which never fired a round of HV ammo. Or the S&W Model 41 feeding, ejection problems you might read about on other forums. And have we started to hear about some Marvel conversions with long-term reliability "issues"?

But forget all that. My first Pardini shot about 300,000 rounds that I can personally document and never had one of those "tiny parts" break. I'll bet there are Walther GSPs out there with similar records, and Hämmerli 208/208s as well.

[BEA]

As an owner of several model 41's, I have had poor accuracy issues. No doubt there are some accurate 41's out there. Unfortunately, none of my 3 happen to fall into the accurate category. I guess this is why you see aftermarket barrels offered for them as a matter of routine. At any rate, poor quality barrels do not boost my confidense in the product.

[jerryg22]

As an owner of several model 41's, I have had poor accuracy issues. No doubt there are some accurate 41's out there. Unfortunately, none of my 3 happen to fall into the accurate category. I guess this is why you see aftermarket barrels offered for them as a matter of routine. At any rate, poor quality barrels do not boost my confidense in the product.

I agree as I have bought and eventually sold two 41s that were disappointing. My Marvel Unit One is more accurate. My next step will be to go euro for a better trigger.

[ghillieman]

My first Pardini shot about 300,000 rounds that I can personally document and never had one of those "tiny parts" break.

That is incredible, and great news for me. What a high round count. I replaced a broken shock buffer on my SP last year and ordered an extra for a spare. Got it in the day before a six week league. I logged in over 3k rounds before that happend. This was a used pistol, and the guy I bought it from bought it from Don Nygord used, no telling what the actual round count is. Everything else is in great shape, so to replace a part that was designed to break down is not a problem. I look at it as replacing the oil in your car, its preventive maintenance.

[tenex]

I broke a firing pin in my Pardini, but I had to shoot roughly the price of the gun in ammo to do it, not too bad. If I had to pick one gun as the "keeper" that one's it.

Steve.

[Alexander]

I broke a firing pin in my Pardini, but I had to shoot roughly the price of the gun in ammo to do it, not too bad.

Given your chosen nickname, that is NOT much ammunition. ;-)

Alexander

[Chris]

I also broke a firing pin in my Pardini.

My only gripe about it is the slide does not lock back after the 5th round. For a long time I would focus on just the sights and pulling the trigger so I would end up pull the trigger 6 times. After replacing the firing pin I decided I needed to keep track of what shot I was on.

Lately I have been shooting a 208 so I do not have to think about it.

I also had the spring under the extractor and the extractor wear out. But I expect some wear from a 15+ yr old pistol.

[tenex]

I broke a firing pin in my Pardini, but I had to shoot roughly the price of the gun in ammo to do it, not too bad.

Given your chosen nickname, that is NOT much ammunition. ;-)

Alexander

Ok, I deserved that. Actually, I was shooting RWS target, went through 3 or 4 cases. I also can't seem to be able to count to 5 either, that doesn't help.

I've recently converted to CCI std vel. Although I really like the RWS, at a $200 savings per case that's a lot of firing pins. So far, accuracy is as good or better, and reliability is fine.

Cheers,
Steve.

P.S. Thought it was a better nickname than "bulk pack .22".....

Sp.