Any Swagers?

[marko]

Does anyone here swage their own match bullets?

I've been considering making the investment, but am looking for some candid advice on the benefits and drawbacks. Because it's apparent that a lot of people get into swaging w/ high hopes, but then lose interest. My question is why? - is it too tedious, too difficult to get the desired results, or something else?


thanks

[Ernie Rodriguez]

I swage .45 ACP bullets.It is an interesting and rewarding hobby-but you need to invest in some basic equipment. Swaged bullets are very close tolerance(weight) and you can create almost any style,shape and weight you want. If you do lots of shooting, casting bullets might be considered.If you are looking for a specific shape-such as hollow base or nosed-then you might consider swaging.The results are quite accurate bullets.If you don't want to get all that involved-you might consider buying in bulk (cast bullets or swaged) from our many fine cast bullet makers.

[fc60]

Greetings,

I use a Corbin Swaging Press to form 32 HBWC bullets. It is a lot of work; but, the results are encouraging. Lubrication has been my greatest challenge. Coating them with Beeswax has been the most promising lube; however, it is a pain to apply.

I believe Ernie R. has been using Lee Liquid Alox with good results.

I also swage with alloyed Lead. I made a wire extruder to allow this. Additionally, I have a mould that casts plain slugs of the alloy of choice.

I never had much success with pure Lead as a bullet material. Check Speer, Hornady, Lapua, etc for hardness and you will find they do not use pure Lead either.

By now, you can see it is a lot of work to get good results. I wish you well in your endeavor.

Cheers,

Dave Wilson

[marko]

thanks

How have you found the consistency and availability of supplies, for lead and jackets?

I'm not interested in getting into casting, and would likely use wire or pre-formed slugs.

This would be for a moderate number of bullets for match use, for 45 ACP primarily and potentially .357, .44 and .223.

[6string]

I got into swaging for a few years.
The advantages are ease in changing bullet weight, nose shape, or using a hollow base. You can experiment with half jackets, 3/4 jackets, or even special zinc bases (these worked very well). It is great for experimentation. I enjoyed shooting light 120 gr. wadcutters in my .44 magnum. It was great fun for our indoor gallery league fired on the old USRA 20 yd. target.
The versatility of swaging is enjoyable, but can get you spending a lot of time just trying out odd experiments. I don't know if that's an advantage or not!
The disadvantages are numerous: I find it slower than casting. The equipment is very expensive. The lead wire can be hard to find and is expensive. In fact, all the supplies are expensive. Casting lead cores works well, but then you might as well cast bullets! Plain lead bullets are problematic due the the lack of lube grooves. (I suppose you could design a slug with vertical lube grooves but I've never seen anybody marketing such a die. You'd pay a King's ransom to have a die made.) Swaging pressure increases tremendously with anything but pure lead. So, even if you use a soft alloy, such as 95% lead to 5% tin, you'll need an expensive swaging press. Plus, where do you get your alloy? Good luck finding it in wire form made to your specification. You can melt your own, but then again, you may as well cast bullets.
The inexpensive dies intended for use in a single stage reloading press (such as by C-H or Sport-Flite) can't be used with anything but pure lead. Even then you'll need a big strong press.
While swaged slugs are very consistent in regard to weight, you'll find t it difficult to match a pre-determined weight once you go back to re-create a slug. This is the down side of being able to easily adjust weight. You have to be careful to organize slugs into "lots" and not to mix them.
Honestly, I find casting to better suit my needs. I do it outdoors for maximum safety from lead fumes.
I must confess that I've not kept up with the latest technology regarding swaging. Perhaps there is new equipment, such as hydraulic or pneumatic presses, that would bring semi-production capability and increased options within reach?
If you do pursue swaging, please keep us informed of your experiences. It can be lots of fun, and perhaps it will suit your needs.

[marko]

I probably would use a dedicated press, rather than a SS reloading press.

So the wire is all pure lead? I'm guessing that it's primarily used for jacketed bullets then. Are the swaged lead bullets from companies like Magnus pure lead?

This is all good to know. I'm comfortable w/ the mechanical aspects of swaging, and the initial investment, it's the materials and supplies that I need to learn more about.

[Ernie Rodriguez]

Marko-I know you are not interested in Casting but consider this-Lead wire isn't too easily available and it is probably more expensive. Here is what I did.In making core's my target weight was 205/210 grains. I got 2 41 cal molds with the weight I wanted and used the resulting bullets as "cores" for my 45 cal.There is another advantage-depending on velocity "pure" lead sometimes does deposit lead in the bbl dispite best effort. I don't remember the exact numbers but when I ordered some swaged bullets from Zero,Magnus or others I did test them with my Cabine Tree hardness tester and they were NOT pure lead.What I am saying here is casting "CORES" you can vary the hardness level to some degree and perhaps avoid any residual minor leading that may occur. Just food for thought. Ernie

[IPshooter]

Guys,

This topic is interesting. In my Pardini, the Lapua swaged bullet works best in a certain diameter. But, these babies are expensive.

I don't know what is needed to produce comparable bullets myself via swaging. Can it be done economically? Or is it just not worth the time, trouble and investment?

Stan

[Spencer]

a stack of information at the Corbin website (http://www.corbins.com/) including the manual (http://www.swage.com/ebooks/hb-8.htm) also available as an E-book/pdf download

[IPshooter]

a stack of information at the Corbin website (http://www.corbins.com/) including the manual (http://www.swage.com/ebooks/hb-8.htm) also available as an E-book/pdf download

Thanks, Spencer. I meant to ask about a good Web site. Maybe this will inspire me to spend some quality time with my Dillon press and Pardini!

Stan

[Spencer]

the manual is well worth a read whether you go for corbin gear, or not (it is a lot of information).

[6string]

Yes, the Corbin book is a great resource and will let you know what you are getting yourself into.
The equipment is expensive. The basic press is several hundred dollars and the dies are a few hundred as well, if I recall correctly. The lead wire is more expensive, pound for pound, than even commercial grade ingots and much more costly than wheelweights, etc.
The alloy for commercial swaged bullets is harder than pure lead. But, they are using commercial hydraulic or pneumatic equipment. Most of the swaging equipment for the consumer market is only designed for the use of pure lead. The current Corbin equipment may be an exception.
Believe me, the extra pressure to swage alloys harder than pure lead is considerable (just read the Corbin book). You can easily damage your equipment if you use alloys harder than recommended. According to the Corbin book, swaging pressure increases with bullet diameter and that is why anything over .357" diameter is only recommended for dedicated equipment.
Not to sound discouraging, but it is a significant undertaking.
Please keep us informed of your progress!
Jim

[JamesH]

Guys,

This topic is interesting. In my Pardini, the Lapua swaged bullet works best in a certain diameter. But, these babies are expensive.

I don't know what is needed to produce comparable bullets myself via swaging. Can it be done economically? Or is it just not worth the time, trouble and investment?

Stan

I buy commercial swaged bullets and resize them with a Lee resizing kit.

In my experience commercial bullets, cast or swaged, can have very variable diameters and its worth resizing for maximum accuracy.

I can't be bothered swaging or casting from scratch, let the guy who spent thousands of dollars on commercial eqpt do that.

[Ernie Rodriguez]

Stan-Some tips. If you go into swaging-use an "O" type(not cast aluninum) press Single stage would be OK. I use the Redding BIG BOSS for lighter work and the CORBIN Walnut Hill press for heavier Swaging.The second thing you should give some thought to is "how to apply the lubricant to bullet" I use a Corbin Knurling tool to put a checkered pattern on the bearing surface of bullet. I use Lee's liquid ALOX and roll the bullet on a pad soaked with this stuff.You can dilute this stuff up to 50% to control the leading(if any) characteristiscs,The most inexpensive swaging dies I have found is the dies made by C-H company.Cheers

[IPshooter]

Guys,

Thanks for all the information. After looking at the gear that is necessary, I have concluded that the equipment is far too expensive for the relatively small number of bullets I would need. I guess I'll just have to live with factory stuff.

Stan

[denny]

Does anyone here swage their own match bullets?
I have been swaging my owntaget bullets for twenty years and have keep developing a better bullet... I just had my bullets tested bya well known custom gun maker,, Bob Marvel,,, My 45 target bullet averaged 1.38 inches for ten shots at fifty yards, he also stated the lube I developed left the barrel clean, for more info you can contact me at topwingnut@yahoo.com and I will help you with any problems you have... Denny
I've been considering making the investment, but am looking for some candid advice on the benefits and drawbacks. Because it's apparent that a lot of people get into swaging w/ high hopes, but then lose interest. My question is why? - is it too tedious, too difficult to get the desired results, or something else?


thanks

[38HBWC]

Let us all be aware that time is the one commodity we have much too little of to place toward this noble hobby. Swaging presses, supplies and metal are none too cheap. There are suppliers on the web that specialize in wire, but I believe most are in India. A swaged bullet is a multi-stage process. Having cast .358" 148gr. DEWC bullets for some 45 years, I have faith in the better multi-gang molds (Saeco) and sizing/lubing with custom lubricants bearing carnauba/beeswax/paraffin/graphite. But the hitch is the TIME, as this, too is a multi-staged process. Alloys pose little of an obstacle, as they can be purchased as such. One way out is a commercially purchased pill. As I sense they are closely controlled for quality, this frees up time substantially. Then, of course there is powder and primer selection with proper taper or roll crimp tension to give the accuracy needed. Have fun!

[.22-5-40]

Hello, I use Corbin reloading press type dies (7/8-14 thd.) for swaging lead rifle bullets...but with a twist....I am re-forming already cast & lubed bullets. These are .22 & with the Corbin dies, I can change nose shapes to r.n., or f.n. This also squares up base to body perfectly. I am able to duplicate best jacketed bullet accuracy in a Ruger No.1 .222.