10m target shooters spend a lot of time building their position and finding their natural point of aim. I am wondering how a biathlete sets up his position if he does at all in the heat of the battle and if someone can recommend a good training routine
Thanks
Natural Point of Aim in Biathlon?
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, Craig1956
Yes, biathletes are very concerned with NPA. It is usually set to the center target. Prone is like hitting the 7 ring so setup is still super important. World Cup athletes are on and off the mat is about 30 seconds. It takes about 7seconds to get the rifle off the back, swap mags and get into position. The nest block of time is setting up and getting ready to break the first shot. Many will close their eyes and relax before opening them to see where the rifle is pointing and adjust from there. The cadence of firing is 2-3 seconds per shot before getting up and going again. The 30 seconds is ideal and very of ten the speeds are faster.
I use the front edge of the mat as a setup base. When dropping to my knees I try to set down at the same basic angle so when I flop into position the NPA is pretty close. Usually I just need a slight adjustment and this can be made with a hip movement.
Same for offhand the front ski intersects to front edge of the mat at an angle I've become familiar with. From here I just make a slight foot position change and start squeezing off rounds.
When I'm tired I pay extra attention to NPA and burn the time it takes to get into the proper position. 5 seconds of setup beats 30 seconds on the P-loop.
A lot of the procedures can be learned inside the house while dry firing. Don't just get into position and start squeezing. Spend the time to approach the mat and go through the entire range procedure, break 5 "shots" and get up. There is a lot of free time to be had on the range. You should be able to do the entire bit blindfolded once your feet/knees are set. when in position, open your eyes and see what the NPA is. Do it again without making a change and "zero" where your feet/knees set when you get onto the mat. After making the adjustment keep going with the eyes closed until you find what foot/knee position gives you a consistant setup on or very near the center target.
I use the front edge of the mat as a setup base. When dropping to my knees I try to set down at the same basic angle so when I flop into position the NPA is pretty close. Usually I just need a slight adjustment and this can be made with a hip movement.
Same for offhand the front ski intersects to front edge of the mat at an angle I've become familiar with. From here I just make a slight foot position change and start squeezing off rounds.
When I'm tired I pay extra attention to NPA and burn the time it takes to get into the proper position. 5 seconds of setup beats 30 seconds on the P-loop.
A lot of the procedures can be learned inside the house while dry firing. Don't just get into position and start squeezing. Spend the time to approach the mat and go through the entire range procedure, break 5 "shots" and get up. There is a lot of free time to be had on the range. You should be able to do the entire bit blindfolded once your feet/knees are set. when in position, open your eyes and see what the NPA is. Do it again without making a change and "zero" where your feet/knees set when you get onto the mat. After making the adjustment keep going with the eyes closed until you find what foot/knee position gives you a consistant setup on or very near the center target.
Thank you for the detailed answer. I have not been able to find anything online on the subject. I am doing some basic training at home, as I am planing to do my first race up at Lake Tahoe in Jan and maybe in Mammoth.
I probably won't get much range time before.
Too bad there are not more citizen races around
I may have to pick your brain again for more info.
Thanks again,
Axel
I probably won't get much range time before.
Too bad there are not more citizen races around
I may have to pick your brain again for more info.
Thanks again,
Axel
-
Levergun59
- Posts: 251
- Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:37 am
- Location: Silver Lake WI
Kevin6Q
When my son went to his first practice, the instructor told them to approach the left rear quarter of the mat and lie at a 45 degree angle with his legs slung out at 90 degrees. This is a lot different than his ISU prone position. His natural point of aim is all screwed up and approaching the rifle at a 45 degree angle causes all sorts of headaches with the butt of the rifle and the grip at the handstop. Should he try his 10 degree ISU position with the skis and get his NPA. He built his position using the "Way of the Rifle" and it has been working great for him. He watches the rifle recoil and tries to get it going straight up instead of up and right. Just wanted to pick your brain. Thanks.
Chris
When my son went to his first practice, the instructor told them to approach the left rear quarter of the mat and lie at a 45 degree angle with his legs slung out at 90 degrees. This is a lot different than his ISU prone position. His natural point of aim is all screwed up and approaching the rifle at a 45 degree angle causes all sorts of headaches with the butt of the rifle and the grip at the handstop. Should he try his 10 degree ISU position with the skis and get his NPA. He built his position using the "Way of the Rifle" and it has been working great for him. He watches the rifle recoil and tries to get it going straight up instead of up and right. Just wanted to pick your brain. Thanks.
Chris
At the risk of causing a conflict with the coach, I'd have your son use the NPA he has developed and had success with. The 45 approach is to save time wiggling around on the mat and might be appropriate if there is a fresh page to start with.The skis will cause hassles with position shooters as many rest the feet on the toes which won't work with skis on.
Many World Cup athletes use the 45 setup since it is faster on and off the mat. Having said this, I've worked with a few helping them setup rifles and other accessories (I make custom shooting cuffs and blinders and a few other misc. parts) and have a IBU spec single point range at the house so we can shoot, modify and see changes. They all setup differently from straight on to 45. They do what works for them. The setup for NPA starts from where you set your knees. I'd have your son get into his known NPA, splay his feet like he has skis on (make the proper adjustments with hips etc.) and get up without moving his knees. This is a good place to start from. Moving the skis around on the mat is difficult so getting them into the proper spot saves time and compromises.
I shoot left handed and need to make a 180 onto the mat and there are quite a few top level WC athletes who are lefties and they don't suffer too much range time deficit so spending an extra second by altering the approach is no big deal.
Be sure the setup height is good too. Many position shooters setup very low and this screws with your breathing so you can't inhale deeply in position and the athlete ends up supporting/lifting the rifle during prone. To a point, higher is usually better and a good starting spot is having the first two ribs touching the mat. I think there is a rule about a 30 degree angle on the forearm as the minimum. This is very low and most are up much higher.
Go to the IBU website http://www.biathlonworld.com/en/ and find the live feeds of the races (they also have replays) and watch what these athletes do and how they are setup. You will see a lot of variations. To sum up a long reply, the athlete should do what feels good and right. If two seconds spent setting up drops one more target there is a net gain of approximately 28 seconds by noy skiing the extra P-loop.
I hope this helps and keep asking questions. Kevin
Many World Cup athletes use the 45 setup since it is faster on and off the mat. Having said this, I've worked with a few helping them setup rifles and other accessories (I make custom shooting cuffs and blinders and a few other misc. parts) and have a IBU spec single point range at the house so we can shoot, modify and see changes. They all setup differently from straight on to 45. They do what works for them. The setup for NPA starts from where you set your knees. I'd have your son get into his known NPA, splay his feet like he has skis on (make the proper adjustments with hips etc.) and get up without moving his knees. This is a good place to start from. Moving the skis around on the mat is difficult so getting them into the proper spot saves time and compromises.
I shoot left handed and need to make a 180 onto the mat and there are quite a few top level WC athletes who are lefties and they don't suffer too much range time deficit so spending an extra second by altering the approach is no big deal.
Be sure the setup height is good too. Many position shooters setup very low and this screws with your breathing so you can't inhale deeply in position and the athlete ends up supporting/lifting the rifle during prone. To a point, higher is usually better and a good starting spot is having the first two ribs touching the mat. I think there is a rule about a 30 degree angle on the forearm as the minimum. This is very low and most are up much higher.
Go to the IBU website http://www.biathlonworld.com/en/ and find the live feeds of the races (they also have replays) and watch what these athletes do and how they are setup. You will see a lot of variations. To sum up a long reply, the athlete should do what feels good and right. If two seconds spent setting up drops one more target there is a net gain of approximately 28 seconds by noy skiing the extra P-loop.
I hope this helps and keep asking questions. Kevin
-
farewellhcl0808
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:18 am
- Location: beijing
- Contact:
Hello,nice to meet you!
Now,it is the Fun Time!
TGIF vs SHIT
a man met a blond in the elevator.
he greeted her: "T-G-I-F"
but got the reply: "S-H-I-T"
he was startled, but repeated "T-G-I-F"
again the reply was "S-H-I-T"
he was frustrated and said: "T-G-I-F, I mean Thanks God It's Friday"
the blond looked at him saying: "S-H-I-T, I mean Sorry Honey It's Thursday"
Coach Bags
Coach Handbags
Coach outlet
Now,it is the Fun Time!
TGIF vs SHIT
a man met a blond in the elevator.
he greeted her: "T-G-I-F"
but got the reply: "S-H-I-T"
he was startled, but repeated "T-G-I-F"
again the reply was "S-H-I-T"
he was frustrated and said: "T-G-I-F, I mean Thanks God It's Friday"
the blond looked at him saying: "S-H-I-T, I mean Sorry Honey It's Thursday"
Coach Bags
Coach Handbags
Coach outlet
http://www.olympic.org/biathlon
Take a look at the videos and find out what the athletes do.
Take a look at the videos and find out what the athletes do.