I have had this happen to me oh at least 4 times. I would shoot a pellet and i know it went in to the paper target because i can hear it hit my pellet trap. However, I would see 2 holes but i shot 3 times.
Has this happened to you?
2 pellets going in to exactly the same hole!
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compscotty
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:34 pm
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David Levene
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: Ruislip, UK
If you look in the "Gauges" section if the ISSF Shop you will see 2 taper gauges; one for Centrefire and the other for Smallbore and Air.
These will clearly show a hole that has more than 1 shot through it (provided you have at least 2 holes to compare). People who have not used them might doubt that they will work; they work very well. You obviously shouldn't use them if the targets have to be officially scored.
Another useful tool in my range bag is a 30X illuminated microscope. Yo u can usually see fewer fibre ends in holes with 2 shots when compared to those with only 1.
These will clearly show a hole that has more than 1 shot through it (provided you have at least 2 holes to compare). People who have not used them might doubt that they will work; they work very well. You obviously shouldn't use them if the targets have to be officially scored.
Another useful tool in my range bag is a 30X illuminated microscope. Yo u can usually see fewer fibre ends in holes with 2 shots when compared to those with only 1.
The question I must ask is "Were the doubles in the 10 ring?"
If not, you must question your sights and make the necessary adjustments.
OR (if happy that your sights are right)
Question what repeatable error you are making in delivery of your shot.
I will often shoot a tight group of touching shots out of the 10 ring for what appears to be no reason. On analysis I find I am choking the grip and so as I squeeze the trigger there is a slight deviation of the barrel which is repeated shot after shot.
Two shots in the same hole (eg cutting the 9 ring) can be a fluke but often if reveals lack on concentration in the job at hand. When it happens you need to reassess what you are doing.
Sometimes it might be as simple as consciously pulling the trigger when the sights wobble into the bull but by the time the brain sends the message to the finger to tighten, the barrel has wandered off and so you repeat the error.
Cheers Colin
If not, you must question your sights and make the necessary adjustments.
OR (if happy that your sights are right)
Question what repeatable error you are making in delivery of your shot.
I will often shoot a tight group of touching shots out of the 10 ring for what appears to be no reason. On analysis I find I am choking the grip and so as I squeeze the trigger there is a slight deviation of the barrel which is repeated shot after shot.
Two shots in the same hole (eg cutting the 9 ring) can be a fluke but often if reveals lack on concentration in the job at hand. When it happens you need to reassess what you are doing.
Sometimes it might be as simple as consciously pulling the trigger when the sights wobble into the bull but by the time the brain sends the message to the finger to tighten, the barrel has wandered off and so you repeat the error.
Cheers Colin
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luftskytter-
Of course this happens sometimes.
It's more fun in archery though, when you "Robin Hood" or Telescope two arrows (they're made of hollow tubing). Never seen three.
Fun but expensive.....
I guess there's a reason that in AR they only shoot one pellet in each target.
But scoring 3 or more pellets in the same hole can be hard, maybe even harder if it's not a perfect 4.5 millimetre, say three in a row cutting a line.
It's more fun in archery though, when you "Robin Hood" or Telescope two arrows (they're made of hollow tubing). Never seen three.
Fun but expensive.....
I guess there's a reason that in AR they only shoot one pellet in each target.
But scoring 3 or more pellets in the same hole can be hard, maybe even harder if it's not a perfect 4.5 millimetre, say three in a row cutting a line.
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Antoni Scott
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:20 pm
Pellets going through same hole.
Many years ago, a Camp Perry winner ( who practiced regularly with an air gun) told me that the air gun competition was so stiff that there was a lot of cheating going on. They used to shoot a clover leaf at ten meters and then the rest of the shots went over the top of the target !!!!!! To stop this they had to install a second target at some distance behind the first target.
Since occassionally I shoot two pellets through the same hole, I would imagine that if I placed a second target way behind the first , the slight spread of the pellet may be detectable. My problem is that I practice in my basement on a reduced size target. If my shots are closer ( they are closer in my basement than on a ten meter target) and cross a ten ring/nine ring, or nine ring/eight ring , I can't tell if I hit the ten ring or the nine ring, or the nine ring or eight ring. The best thing to do is shoot five shots per target.
Since occassionally I shoot two pellets through the same hole, I would imagine that if I placed a second target way behind the first , the slight spread of the pellet may be detectable. My problem is that I practice in my basement on a reduced size target. If my shots are closer ( they are closer in my basement than on a ten meter target) and cross a ten ring/nine ring, or nine ring/eight ring , I can't tell if I hit the ten ring or the nine ring, or the nine ring or eight ring. The best thing to do is shoot five shots per target.
I had my first triple at the last competition, I was more concerned that people thought I was pulling a fast one than anything else, but because my IZH shoots slow it leaves a trace behind and when seen at close distance you can tell.
I had one shot removed last year, and I didn't like being looked at like a cheater, but I hope to one day shoot more x's than anything else so I will prove them wrong.
What we need is affordable electronic targets.
I had one shot removed last year, and I didn't like being looked at like a cheater, but I hope to one day shoot more x's than anything else so I will prove them wrong.
What we need is affordable electronic targets.
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I shot a couple AP matches where they used ONE target per shot, similar to the AR method. This would eliminate the issue of, where did all the shots go.
For home practice, I shoot as many or few shots, such that I can still score the target. On a BAD day it would be 10 shots per target, on a good day 5 shots would be hard to score. If you are really good, maybe only 2 shots per target.
I try to collect these used match targets, tape the hole and reuse them for practice.
For home practice, I shoot as many or few shots, such that I can still score the target. On a BAD day it would be 10 shots per target, on a good day 5 shots would be hard to score. If you are really good, maybe only 2 shots per target.
I try to collect these used match targets, tape the hole and reuse them for practice.
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David Levene
- Posts: 5617
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:49 pm
- Location: Ruislip, UK
Competitions should be run with a maximum of 2 shots per card, as David points out if shot under ISSF rules then only 1 shot a card. It's useally easy enough to gauge a card and determine if there are one or two shots, but it can be much more difficult to see if there's 2 or 3. If scorers or juries are unsure they are however meant to err on the side of the shooter.
Rob.
Rob.
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Guest
Exactly, also, quality of the target paper is very important as well...RobStubbs wrote:Competitions should be run with a maximum of 2 shots per card, as David points out if shot under ISSF rules then only 1 shot a card. It's useally easy enough to gauge a card and determine if there are one or two shots, but it can be much more difficult to see if there's 2 or 3. If scorers or juries are unsure they are however meant to err on the side of the shooter.
Rob.
I used to store my targets at an underground indoor range... After some time, I noticed that humidity actually effecting the quality of holes punched...
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compscotty
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:34 pm
interestingly they weren't in the 10 ring. All of them were 9's all around the target.ColinC wrote:The question I must ask is "Were the doubles in the 10 ring?"
If not, you must question your sights and make the necessary adjustments.
OR (if happy that your sights are right)
Question what repeatable error you are making in delivery of your shot.
I will often shoot a tight group of touching shots out of the 10 ring for what appears to be no reason. On analysis I find I am choking the grip and so as I squeeze the trigger there is a slight deviation of the barrel which is repeated shot after shot.
Two shots in the same hole (eg cutting the 9 ring) can be a fluke but often if reveals lack on concentration in the job at hand. When it happens you need to reassess what you are doing.
Sometimes it might be as simple as consciously pulling the trigger when the sights wobble into the bull but by the time the brain sends the message to the finger to tighten, the barrel has wandered off and so you repeat the error.
Cheers Colin
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Guests
shots per target
This mutiple shots per target thing brings to mind when a new national record was set by someone at a small match in AZ years ago. I guess the clubs do/did this to save money on paper, but I heard it was 5 shots per target and then scored as a 589 for a new national record. I have no idea who he was, whether he was ever heard from again, who scored his target, but now the rules likely would not allow this to happen. When shooting scores that high, it should be 1 shot per target to be official.