Very light trigger
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shooting fool
Very light trigger
I dusted off my morini cm84e,I changed Back to the light spring which I first started shooting with years ago. Ive always felted comfortable with it but when I discovered AP it was suggested to me to adjust my FP trigger to be more like my AP trigger. My scores fell dramatically.and the gun collected dust. Jason Turners recent great display of FP shooting motivated me try again. My scores in practice where great. Usually I am the only one in the indoor range shooting but yesterday was different. I had a kid with a 9mm shooting next to me. He would shoot then I would shoot ,worked out good ,UNTIL... I loaded and lifted my gun to target, he started to fire his clip and my guns goes off. I question myself did that really happen? My finger was not touching the trigger. I check my load and sure enough the round is spent. I reload and wait . As he goes to empty his clip Im waiting with my gun on target , POW ! it goes off again. It was repeated 4 times until the kid quit shooting . ( I shot a 31 out of 40 lol , without pulling (touching) the trigger ) Is that a light trigger? dumb question. All I have to say is safety first , "ALWAYS POINT YOUR BARREL DOWN RANGE !" Im going to have that tattooed on the inside of my eyeballs.
In the winter, I am shooting FP in an indoor 50/100m range where many center fire rifle shooters are also shooting. This is a much bigger blast than a 9mm pistol and nothing like you mention ever happened.
The Morini has also a safety (the normal single stage CM84E, this safety doesn't exist on the two stage CM84E) that should make any shot impossible if the finger is not on the trigger blade -> the problem is more probably coming from the electronic unit than from a light trigger.
The Morini has also a safety (the normal single stage CM84E, this safety doesn't exist on the two stage CM84E) that should make any shot impossible if the finger is not on the trigger blade -> the problem is more probably coming from the electronic unit than from a light trigger.
Last edited by jipe on Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Guest
Re: Very light trigger
Keep the light spring, but adjust the sear engagement.shooting fool wrote:... Is that a light trigger?....
I think it only requires the finger to be near the blade, not specifically on it - isn't it an opto electronic sensor, in which the beam is broken (and trigger made live) by the finger being in the ? I would personally fit a heavier trigger spring in the interests of safety.lastman wrote:I thought the CM84E required your finger to be on the trigger before the circuit could be closed for the trigger to release.
Maybe there is a fault with your trigger circuit.
Rob.
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Fred Mannis
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If there is a problem with the circuitry, putting in a heavier spring will not necessarily make the pistol safer. Best to determine exactly what the problem is. If everything is in order, the pistol should not fire with the beam unbroken. Even with the beam broken and the finger not on the trigger the pistol should not fire as the result of blast from a nearby firearm.RobStubbs wrote:I think it only requires the finger to be near the blade, not specifically on it - isn't it an opto electronic sensor, in which the beam is broken (and trigger made live) by the finger being in the ? I would personally fit a heavier trigger spring in the interests of safety.lastman wrote:I thought the CM84E required your finger to be on the trigger before the circuit could be closed for the trigger to release.
Maybe there is a fault with your trigger circuit.
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Guest
From the manual:
2.3 Close the breech (2) fully down using the cocking lever (1) paying attention that your trigger finger is dear of the optical sensor line (Fig. 3 (2)), otherwise the shot may be fired accidentally caused by the vibration during the loading procedure, especially if the trigger adjustment is set too fine. As a precaution, we advise that you turn-off the electronic before loading the pistol.
"shot may be fired accidentally caused by the vibration" being what I would emphasize.
2.3 Close the breech (2) fully down using the cocking lever (1) paying attention that your trigger finger is dear of the optical sensor line (Fig. 3 (2)), otherwise the shot may be fired accidentally caused by the vibration during the loading procedure, especially if the trigger adjustment is set too fine. As a precaution, we advise that you turn-off the electronic before loading the pistol.
"shot may be fired accidentally caused by the vibration" being what I would emphasize.
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shooting fool
light trigger
Your finger only has to break the beam that goes through the trigger for the safety to go off. Thats why I would pick up the gun point it down range , wait for him to start shooting then place my finger in front of the trigger ,which would make my gun go off. I shot lastnight at another range with lots of room. My gun acted perfectly. I can feel the trigger before each shot,but just barely. Shooting is a unsafe sport when safety is not considered. Rob, In the interest of pure safety I should just stop shooting light triggers all together. In the interest of competition free pistols have very light triggers that r adjustable. I wish to shoot FP. and with that light trigger I am shooting rather well. ( practice scores above 550). Shooting on the other hand is a very safe sport when safety is considered. Considering the way my gun shoots I am considering safety more than anyone on the range. Right now I cant wait to see how I will shoot in the next match. I will keep u informed. I am also going to test it again under the same conditions to see if I can get it to happen again. If I do I will video it.
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shootingfool
Tried again tonight (sorry no video) The man shooting next to me was shooting a little 380. All I had to do was block the beam on my trigger and him discharge a round . We tried it ahalf dozen times ,my gun shot everytime. This is just something everyone with a Morini 84e and a light trigger should know.
There is no sear to adjust on a Morini, you can only slightly alter the switch free play.
You should have three different trigger springs.
If the lightest spring is fitted you may be too light on the spring.
What weight do you have set on the trigger?
(Difficult to measure without the right tools).
The saftey circuit will only let the pistol fire if the beam (thru trigger is broken and the trigger is moved to break the micro switch - either by pulling, vibration or switch not enough spring weight to reset.
Try setting a minimum trigger weight of 50-55g and test.
A rare problem can be a worn sear that does not set properly, but they usually fire on closing the breach.
Hope this helps.
You should have three different trigger springs.
If the lightest spring is fitted you may be too light on the spring.
What weight do you have set on the trigger?
(Difficult to measure without the right tools).
The saftey circuit will only let the pistol fire if the beam (thru trigger is broken and the trigger is moved to break the micro switch - either by pulling, vibration or switch not enough spring weight to reset.
Try setting a minimum trigger weight of 50-55g and test.
A rare problem can be a worn sear that does not set properly, but they usually fire on closing the breach.
Hope this helps.
I am also curious to know what very light trigger mean in this case ? Is it 30g or much less, 10g ??David M wrote:What weight do you have set on the trigger?.
It is not that difficult to measure, same method as for AP but you make your oen weigth with some piece of steel like bolts, nuts, washer... (something with a hole in it that you can put around the trigger blade is easy tu use) that you weigth with an accurate scale like the powder scale used for reloading for instance.
Last edited by jipe on Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
The lightest I have ever seen was on a russian shooters Toz pistol many years ago, when set and lifted from horizontal to vertical the weight of the trigger shoe fired the pistol (about 5g).
This dangerously light.
Trigger weights of 15-30g are very light, difficult to control and require extreme finger training, usually using a pulse trigger technique.
30-50g are light triggers and need good to very good trigger control, but offer little to no feedback at shot break, vague in feel, difficult to abort shots.
55-65g and you are starting to get some feel into the trigger, enough that you can tickle the trigger (slide your finger up or down the shoe and not set it off), check placement and settle thru the fat of the finger and offers some feedback as to finger position and movement when fired.
70-85g better feel and control when cold and under competition pressure. Also a little easier to control if you are shooting in a medium to strong wind.
90-100g good starting weight to learn free pistol, trigger control is easier, offering better feedback and helps stop the very wild "Oops" shots. At this weight the finger will sit firmly on the trigger, skin and flesh compressed with a firm fit onto the bone.
This dangerously light.
Trigger weights of 15-30g are very light, difficult to control and require extreme finger training, usually using a pulse trigger technique.
30-50g are light triggers and need good to very good trigger control, but offer little to no feedback at shot break, vague in feel, difficult to abort shots.
55-65g and you are starting to get some feel into the trigger, enough that you can tickle the trigger (slide your finger up or down the shoe and not set it off), check placement and settle thru the fat of the finger and offers some feedback as to finger position and movement when fired.
70-85g better feel and control when cold and under competition pressure. Also a little easier to control if you are shooting in a medium to strong wind.
90-100g good starting weight to learn free pistol, trigger control is easier, offering better feedback and helps stop the very wild "Oops" shots. At this weight the finger will sit firmly on the trigger, skin and flesh compressed with a firm fit onto the bone.
David, I don't agree with the above.David M wrote:The lightest I have ever seen was on a russian shooters Toz pistol many years ago, when set and lifted from horizontal to vertical the weight of the trigger shoe fired the pistol (about 5g).
This dangerously light.
Trigger weights of 15-30g are very light, difficult to control and require extreme finger training, usually using a pulse trigger technique.
30-50g are light triggers and need good to very good trigger control, but offer little to no feedback at shot break, vague in feel, difficult to abort shots.
55-65g and you are starting to get some feel into the trigger, enough that you can tickle the trigger (slide your finger up or down the shoe and not set it off), check placement and settle thru the fat of the finger and offers some feedback as to finger position and movement when fired.
70-85g better feel and control when cold and under competition pressure. Also a little easier to control if you are shooting in a medium to strong wind.
90-100g good starting weight to learn free pistol, trigger control is easier, offering better feedback and helps stop the very wild "Oops" shots. At this weight the finger will sit firmly on the trigger, skin and flesh compressed with a firm fit onto the bone.
The sensitivity is very different from people to people. It depends for instance of what work they are doing.
So making such a classification with 10 to 15g difference from one class to the next is almost meaningless.