Help! My front sight goes down

[bijupaul]

Hello everyone, I'm following this forum for some time, it did helped me a lot. I shoot with LP10 with an average 88 to 91% but on further improving my score I stuck-up some where, let me explain, when I do dry fire on a blank wall my sight aliments are perfect and trigger pull is smooth and effortless, but when I put it on test against a target on range many time when I aline my sight on aiming area and started pulling the trigger I can see my front sight slowly goes down as I apply the pressure on second stage, then I will abort the shot and try to re-group again and again finally I will manage to get a good shot but this will be eating up my time and will end up in forcefully go with the shot and end-up in 6'clock 7 or 6. This scenario costed me a qualification match couple of weeks back.
Why this happens to me is it because, for keeping the sight alined in aiming area am I loosening my fingers or braking the Wrist?
What should I do? do lot more dry fire? dry fire with an aiming mark on wall?
Help me please, those forced 7s eating up my score.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Biju

[paulo]

Don't force the sevens, abort them.
http://www.powerballs.com/index.php?m=Home

[Bakerman]

In my opinion powerball is no good for shooting, because the wrist should be motionless while shooting, but powerball gives these rotary movements which our muscles adapt to.

There are some other exercises for wrists, for example take a sheet of paper and put it on a table, than grab the paper with your hand and start to compress it as much as you can. The hand should lie on the table during this exercise.

I also prefer to tie a dumbbell to a stick on a 1m wire and than slowly wind it up with both hands.

I think that these exercises are more appropriate for pistol shooters.

I have also tried the powerball, but the results weren't good.

[David Levene]

....but this will be eating up my time....

That's why you get 105 minutes for 60 shots (plus sighters).

Are you sure that your grip strength is the same for dry firing and live firing.

[bijupaul]

....but this will be eating up my time....

That's why you get 105 minutes for 60 shots (plus sighters).

Are you sure that your grip strength is the same for dry firing and live firing.

You are right, Just now I did some dry fire tests on blank wall and also with a small spot on it, I felt my grip strength was little less when I try to align the sight with spot compare to a plain blank wall, is that mean I'm trying to align to the spot with the help of loose grip?
Biju

[David Levene]

Whether it is against a blank wall, a small spot or a target you should always have the same correct grip pressure.

I suspect that, if your sight alignment is changing when you change your grip pressure slightly, the woodwork on your gun might not fit you correctly.

Please don't ask me which part might be wrong. I have only been shooting pistol for 31 years and have not yet worked out how grips should be modified. I know when they are wrong but always leave it to experts to make them right.

[Guest]

When you dry fire against a blank wall, you have no way of telling if your front sight is drooping; you can only see this if you are sighting against a fixed mark, such as the target. Therefore, what you do against the blank wall may well be exactly the same as what you do against the target.

Once you have sorted out issues of grip fit and grip strength, you may find that the drooping still happens. My experience has been - FWIW - that certain grip angles are much easier to maintain than others. Sometimes I will find that a gun with a certain grip angle will be nearly impossible for me to hold level for any length of time. If it's a gun like the LP10, I just use the grip angle adjustments to change to angle to one which works for me. That's what those adjustments are there for.

HTH,
FredB

[Mike M. (as guest)]

Try loosening your small finger a bit. Pressure with that finger will pull shots down considerably.

[David Levene]

When you dry fire against a blank wall, you have no way of telling if your front sight is drooping;

I can't agree with that I'm afraid. You can tell that the front sight is drooping when its top drops below the level of the top of the rear sight.

[Jessy]

Try loosening your small finger a bit. Pressure with that finger will pull shots down considerably.

I do agree with this too. Also, you can check if your head is tilted forward you are looking at sights from bottom. Another reason could be that when you aim at target in the shooting range, you concentrate more to place sights at the right aiming point (not area) that your front sight drops down during shot release.
My final advice, forget about the past and give it a positive retry with a fresh eye and a whole list of only correct things to do, regardless of the score. Keep on trying until results are satisfying.
Good luck.
Jessy

[2650 Plus]

The front sight can drop for two reasons, both have already been mentioned. Movement of the head downward and a change in gripping pressure as the trigger is presed to the rear. If lessening the pressure of the little finger doesn't work, I would try increasing its pressure as the next attempt to stop the problem. your goal should be to eliminate any change in gripping pressure as you apply pressure to the trigger. Good Shooting Bill Horton

[FredB]

When you dry fire against a blank wall, you have no way of telling if your front sight is drooping;

I can't agree with that I'm afraid. You can tell that the front sight is drooping when its top drops below the level of the top of the rear sight.

David,

Of course you are correct. I must have been thinking of the whole arm and pistol drooping together (with sights still aligned).

FredB

P.S. Is anyone else having problems with the message-submit function failing multiple times and then logging you out?

[bijupaul]

Thank you all for help, like FredB said there are some issues with my grip I'm forcing the hold it's not my NPA, need to find an expert for fixing it.
No my head is not tilting but as Mike and others advised I did some dry firing on spot with loose small finger and it seems works but still need to try at rage. Thanks Jessy, what you said is absolutely right, as Bill Horton advised I need to eliminate the change in gripping pressure as I apply the trigger.

I'm also attaching some images,

Img 1 - I did tried to abort and and re-group but some shots I let it go hoping the best but you can see the result.

Img 2 - Instead of let it go, I forcefully tried to bring the front sight up during the shot process.

NPA - This is my sight picture if I close my eyes and rise the pistol.

With Thanks,
Biju

[FredB]

Biju,

If the third picture is how your sights look every time you raise the gun - i.e. your hand grip is very consistent - then you don't need an expert to fix your pistol grip. Just use the little grip angle adjustment screws on the frame to get your gun to point the way you want. Instructions are in the owner's manual.

HTH,
FredB

[dhurt]

Yes FredB, this correction should be easy with the Steyer, much harder with a non'adjustable grip/frame!

[paulo]

I had to use shims on the right side of the lower part of a Morini grip, in order to change the angle of the grip from almost vertical.
From your sight alignment image your grip needs to go right at the base, the distance the sights are out of alignment.

[jipe]

Img 2 - Instead of let it go, I forcefully tried to bring the front sight up during the shot process.

If you need to force to bring the sight up it means that the grip is not raked enough for you.

You should increase the grip angle so that the pistol points at the right place when your wrist is at its maximum down position, i.e. when you do not need any effort to maintain the pistol horizontal.

You have luckily an LP10 that has these little screw between the frame and grip that allow you to adjust the grip angle (you need to remove the grip to adjust them).

Once you have adjusted the grip angle, you might also need to re-adjust the trigger blade position (if you increase the rake, the trigger blade might become too far to the front and you might need to move it to the rear).

[schatzperson]

I am intrigued by Jipe's comment ;

You should increase the grip angle so that the pistol points at the right place when your wrist is at its maximum down position, i.e. when you do not need any effort to maintain the pistol horizontal.

Wow ! Does this mean that the pistol has to droop under its own weight to my natural minimum ?
From what I can see this would automatically mean that no pistol I have ever fired can adjust down to this angle. The muzzle of my FAS will have to drop by about 1.5 inches !!!

Am I missing some vital clue here or shall I join a freak circus ?

[yana]

Try a hold without looking: pull up the pistol, aim, than close yr eyes. Than look back. Where yr frontsight? If the grip is correct, it should be where it wás, that it, in the middle and same level as rear sight.
If its lower in yr case, you could also try to alter the grip(more/less pressure on certain fingers). Also check that the balance is correct for you (not too frontheavy) and indeed check grip angle.
Pressure on the pinky can pull the pistol down for once. As can 'conscious pulling on the trigger'(YES, NOW!!!shot has to go now!!)
Might be usefull to fire a few shots,. but completely focus on what yr hand/fingers/wrist are doing, feel inside.

[schatzperson]

Jipe wrote

You should increase the grip angle so that the pistol points at the right place when your wrist is at its maximum down position,

.....
this is on my mind !

If I do the exercise of lifting up the pistol with my eyes closed I have two possibilites:
1) With my wrist hanging limp at its maximum down position ( what Jipe suggests). In this case the muzzle is pointing quiet far down, I am not sure if my FAS can adjust this far.

2) With my wrist at a sort of angle one would have while throwing a punch.
Easy to adjust the grip to this angle.

I have to lift the muzzle about 3 cm or more to switch from condition 1) to 2).

??? Perplexed !