Lilja Barrels (need feedback on them)

[Guest]

I am thinking of getting a lilja barrel for my 2007 rifle. I do wish to know a few things first.

What is the life expectancy of the barrel? (as in how many rounds can it take)

What are my options for sight extensions? (MEC Strike looks like a good option... any feedback?)

Because I would like it to be a 27" barrel (unless they only have 21" ones when i go out there) Do they cut the dovetails for the Anschutz front sight? Or do i need the sight extension?

And then any other experiences with this barrel would be great.

Thank you

[dlinden]

1.) Last as long as any other barrel.

2.) Any sight extension you want.

3.) Can cut the grooves for a small additional cost.

4.) If you purchase one, it will be good enough to shoot all 10's.

dl

[ammons arms]

Dito to above comment. You will never regret having a Lilja barrel.

[ammons arms]

Call Dan by searching Lilja Barrels on line. He is the best one to talk with.

[Guest]

Based on these comments, Do you believe that the accurate life is longer than the 5-10k rounds (as lilja estimates)? At that rate the barrel would be less accurate within a year

Thanks for the input

[Roodaddy600]

The life will be far longer than 10k rounds. It will change after about 10k but you can test more ammo and it will shoot just as well as it did before.

Shane

[justadude]

The 5-10K lifetime sounds like the number that applies to a high-power barrel.

While I have not seen recent estimates when I was very active in the 1970s the estimated life of a smallbore barrel was considered to be 80-100K rounds. This assumed modest efforts at cleaning and maintenance as well as using target grade ammo. (i.e. no high velocity ammo purchased for $3 for 100 rounds at your local discount store.) Bottom line, for most recreational shooters, the barrel will outlive the shooter.

While there are varying opinions on how much cleaning a barrel should have it is generally accepted that the chambering area is critical and should be cleaned regularly. Talk to the manufacturer to get their recommendations on care.

'Dude

[Guest]

I have E-mailed Lilja and they do not do the dovetail cutting. However I found a cheaper sight extension tube (Medesha 10" w/adaptor For a grand total of $78.50) So that diffidently reduces cost. Anybody use this or have feedback on it?

[ammons arms]

Scott Medesha is local to me and I have his tube on all of my Lilja barrels. I have nothing but good things to say.

[rayjay]

The Lilja that came on my used 2013 had large burrs on the extractor cuts and the leade/throat area of the chamber had not been polished. When you cut a chamber the reamer will leave small burrs on the side of the rifling. These must be removed or the bbl will never shoot to it's potential. Calfee uses a hob to remove the burrs and other smiths have their own polishing method. I use a split arbor with worn 400 and 600 paper. After the burrs are removed I polish the area with Flitz.

The burrs on the extractor cuts were quite large and I am sure the bbl was headspaced on these burrs as there was no way for the bolt to get close enough to the breech face for the headspace to be read off of a gauge.

Once the above issues were addressed the bbl does shoot extremely well.

[mobarron]

If you are very concerned about barrel life, get a chrome moly barrel. I don't remember whether Lilja uses chrome moly but other makers - Benchmark for one - do and your barrel will last another couple of generations. Mike Barron

[jhmartin]

Before calling Scott on the tube, get the exact diameter for the muzzle end.
That way he can mill the adapter for your bbl.
If you can take the colors he has in stock, you'll get the tube in a few days, if not you may have to wait a while & remind him.

I've got 6 Medesha tubes and have never had issues with the tubes themselves or the delivery, but I've got a whole rainbow of colors too. My shooters like it as it identifies their individual guns

[metermatch]

Wearing out a smallbore barrel in 5-10k rounds is nonsense. Most of the top shooters I recall in the 1980's had at least 50k rounds through their guns. Many had over 100k rounds. I seem to remember George Stidworthy had a 37 Remington with over 200k rounds, My original 1985 1813 has about 140k rounds through the Schneider barrel Karl Kenyon put on it in 1987. It still easily shoots master level scores. (and that barrel set 8 national records, when it had about 50k rounds through it).

You are mixing up with highpower barrels, that can start to go at 3-5k rounds.


Jeff

[metermatch]

Dan Lilja will make a drop in 2013 barrel at least 27" long.

He can drill and tap for sight bases.

This is what he did for me about a year ago.

I do not know about cutting dovetails.


Jeff

[Eric U]

You will likely not wear out a barrel in 5-10k rounds, but I think the days of 150,000+ rounds of peak accuracy are over. The priming compound in all the top rimfire ammunition seems to wear out barrels (any brand) faster now than it did 15-20 years ago. I also have about 150k+ rounds through my Anschutz (Schneider barrel). It is way past peak accuracy, but still shoots pretty well. My new rifle has about 40k through it and I can already see the accuracy start to deteriorate. Keep in mind that I can probably tell when accuracy is starting to diminish a little better than your average shooter and like have higher standards of accuracy. We (at the AMU) are replacing barrels at 50k or sooner more often than not.

Eric U

[rayjay]

With a good borescope and experience you can see the "6 o'clock bore erosion" [ it's actually etching, imo ] in the first few hundred rounds.

[Finprof]

The Luilja FAQ does say 5,00 to 10,000 rounds before accuracy degrades, but that statement is followed by:
"We have in our shop one our drop-in Anschutz barrels that has 200,000 rounds through it and the shooter, a competitive small-bore shooter reported that it had just quit shooting."

So they are saying that it varies.

[justadude]

As long as we are shooting 22 smallbore there will be discussions on barrel life, accuracy, type of ammo vs barrel life and the like.

In my personal opinion the top rifles today are probably more accurate than their counterparts from 30 years ago. There is always a tendency to recall some rifle/ammo combination you had at some time being a little better than it really was and it should be noted that over time the ten ring in international smallbore has gotten smaller. At the same time, these days it might take more effort to get a top rifle to the point of being world class capable.

In the past were there barrels that when 150k+ rounds without losing accuracy? Probably. The other detail there is those barrels were likely "set back". The barrel removed, 1/4" or so cut off the back end the barrel rechambered. The first signs of wear are often just past the chamber of the barrel.

Much of the barrel wear in 22 comes from glass in the priming compound. The best information is that all smallbore ammo these days has glass in the priming compound. The earliest evidence of any tests I have comes from a discussion by former US Shooting Team (World Champion?) Jack Foster. This comes from about 1976 and he is referencing what was an American Target ammo "Winchester Western Mark III". Back then rifles that were fed a steady diet of Mark III were known to develop a "Mark III ring" this was a ring in the barrel at the 6-oClock position just ahead of the chamber. This comment is taken from a longer discussion.

Jack Foster: I can make a comment here on a test we did on barrel life using Hart barrels and Mark III. With cleaning every fifty rounds, the first indication of a ring from the glass in the priming compound would appear at about 25,000 rounds. When we didn't clean, we could begin to see this ring at about 500 rounds. Thus barrel life was prolonged about five times with cleaning. Now I would think this experiment would be roughly applicable to Eley. We don't get a ring with Eley, but we do get barrel erosion from the glass in the priming compound.

Now, I think there is a typo in the book I have as the text says 500 rounds then refers to 5 times barrel life. I expect the text should say 5000 rounds.

The first mention I have of glass being in all ammo was attributed to Bill Wiseman a noted Marine Corp Amorer from the 70s.

What I take away from this is that about a zillion years ago. (Before many on this forum were born) it was noted glass in the primer caused barrel damage and that even Eley had gone to glass in the primer. The end result was that even with Eley, barrels were eroding, just not showing a "ring". Coming back to present day where there are a few more target grade ammos out there I expect the old wisdom holds that the glass problem is omnipresent. This supports Eric U's argument that come 40k rounds a barrel is likley past its peak. I would certainly defer to Eric having a lot more current experience.

'Dude

[GeraldC]

Just get the barrel you want.200,000 rounds of tennex costs me about 60,000 $US.
So a $400 US barrel doesnt even figure.
I have an Anschutz 2013 and 4 barrels and I tune and swap to what I have.
But a good barrel is less fussy so spend your money on the barrel.