A few days ago, KennyB suggested that I might be subject to the phenomenon of Imprinting due to the amount of time I use to aim and execute a shot. Initially, I was doubtful that this might be happening, but now I am not so sure. After analyzing two days on the noptel, I think there may very well be something going on. Not bad - but just enough to lose a few tenths here and there.
As my inner position settles and I fully relax, my aimpoint begins at 4pm and slowly works its way to its final position in the center - the NPA. I decided to to look at the trace on the noptel this morning and measure how long it truly DOES take for me to get to what I perceive is the center. It is plain to see the 4 to 10 drift and the settling-point. It also is apparent that it takes me a considerable amount of time to get to the final resting place. However, MANY times I see what appears to be a center shot but when I look at the trace, it is consistently off to small degree - usually at 3 or 4pm. Thus, I tend to execute the shot before I get all the way to the center. This leads to a ton of 10.6s just barely at 4pm. HERE'S THE KICKER: After shooting multiple 10.6s at 4pm, I hit the re-zero button to get the shots to the middle. For the next few shots, things will get better, BUT the same trend will re-appear! THIS makes me think that the same phenomenon is replaying itself. I can't help but think it is Imprinting.
Now, during live-fire, when I shoot a 9, it is generally at 4 o'clock. I am wondering if my process is taking too long - allowing for the imprint to take place just prior to perfect NPA. I may 'perceive' the NPA as being correct but the image may be flawed. I intentionally blink (considerably) just ahead of executing a shot to ensure clarity. Can this reduce the chance of imprinting? I was also thinking that if allowed my position to completely settle before focusing on the bull, I might have a better chance of eliminating the 4pm trend and shoot deeper 10s.
I wish this site allowed me to share the shot-file from this morning. But it doesn't accept the .pum format. If anyone would like to see it and sends me their email address, I'll forward it to you.
Thoughts on Imprinting would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. BartP
Imprinting
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
Well Bart, you know shooting too slowly is not exactly an issue for me. But when I do over hold and take the shot, it's almost always at 6. This would be consistent with you issue as my hold comes up from 6. This is also the source of pretty much all of my low shots.
Look away from the sight from time to time as you settle. I think looking at the grass to your right would be a better idea than blinking. I've heard the color green relaxes you eyes. It also allows you to look at a different shape which I feel would better "refresh" your eye than blinking and looking back at the exact same shapes. I usually take a few last looks up wind to make sure a change isn't on the way before doing my final settling for the shot. That final settling only takes 2-3sec before the shot is released.
Look away from the sight from time to time as you settle. I think looking at the grass to your right would be a better idea than blinking. I've heard the color green relaxes you eyes. It also allows you to look at a different shape which I feel would better "refresh" your eye than blinking and looking back at the exact same shapes. I usually take a few last looks up wind to make sure a change isn't on the way before doing my final settling for the shot. That final settling only takes 2-3sec before the shot is released.
-
Guest
Hi BartP -
I believe you and Bill are discussing a separate issue. The initial topic had to do with the phenomenon of after-image effects. As applied to sighting, this would mean that you think you are "seeing" a perfectly centered sight picture when, in fact, the sight has drifted to another locaton on the target. This occurs from looking at one point too long and the visual image just persists. It would not relate to how you come up on the center of the bull, but rather where your hold drifts afterwards.
Just don't stare too long at that 10.9 and you will be good to go. Just the same as looking at a pretty woman.
Dennis
I believe you and Bill are discussing a separate issue. The initial topic had to do with the phenomenon of after-image effects. As applied to sighting, this would mean that you think you are "seeing" a perfectly centered sight picture when, in fact, the sight has drifted to another locaton on the target. This occurs from looking at one point too long and the visual image just persists. It would not relate to how you come up on the center of the bull, but rather where your hold drifts afterwards.
Just don't stare too long at that 10.9 and you will be good to go. Just the same as looking at a pretty woman.
Dennis
Looking tooong at sight allignment
I usually shoot fairly quickley with a rifle so I seldon have the problem with burning in an imiage and became aware of this phenomen shooting pistol. I would be in the process of alligning sights and all would be perfect. then I would suddenly be seeing mis-alligned sights and did nit see the movement from perfect to mis-aligned. This taught me to either speed up the shot process orto start allignment later in the shot process. Both approaches proved beneficial. Good Shooting Bill Horton
Your input is appreciated. After getting your responses and consulting other powers that be, it seems that the training solution is to start the relaxation/settling-in process before focusing heavily on the bull. By taking that time to check conditions, breathe, and perform a self-check - I can then focus on the bull and execute the shot using far less time. So spending less time actually aiming will be the first trial. This should reduce the potential for imprinting and improve my NPA process at the same time.
Sandy - no, the hold does not "always" hover at 4pm, but I'd have to say that 85% of my hold-traces end up there. I get some 2 o'clock shots once in a while. BUT in live-fire that is rare.
Again - thanks for the input. B
Sandy - no, the hold does not "always" hover at 4pm, but I'd have to say that 85% of my hold-traces end up there. I get some 2 o'clock shots once in a while. BUT in live-fire that is rare.
Again - thanks for the input. B
-
front sight watcher
why are you focussing "on the bull"?BartP wrote:Your input is appreciated. After getting your responses and consulting other powers that be, it seems that the training solution is to start the relaxation/settling-in process before focusing heavily on the bull. By taking that time to check conditions, breathe, and perform a self-check - I can then focus on the bull and execute the shot using far less time. So spending less time actually aiming will be the first trial. This should reduce the potential for imprinting and improve my NPA process at the same time.
Sandy - no, the hold does not "always" hover at 4pm, but I'd have to say that 85% of my hold-traces end up there. I get some 2 o'clock shots once in a while. BUT in live-fire that is rare.
Again - thanks for the input. B
I think what our friend is commenting on is the "...on the bull..." bit - where maybe what you meant was "...on the foresight...".
Anyway, the process you describe is the ideal - all I would add is that on the final approach to the target you try watching (focusing on) the foresight as it comes up onto the aiming mark, let it settle and shoot.
In the past I was advised that you should close your eyes, breathe out, open your eyes and if the sight picture is correct - shoot.
I've subsequently found that watching (focusing on) the foresight as it comes up works better for me.
With that in mind, I would suggest another exercise too (f you don't do this already):
Line up on target & relax,
close eyes, breathe in, breathe out, open eyes, check NPA, adjust.
close eyes, breathe in, breathe out, open eyes, check NPA, confirm.
close eyes, breathe in, breathe out, SHOOT, open eyes, check NPA.
This process obliges you to focus on your inner position and trigger release.
Try 10 5-shot groups or 5 10-shot strings on NOPTEL and see how well you group.
Regards,
Ken.
Anyway, the process you describe is the ideal - all I would add is that on the final approach to the target you try watching (focusing on) the foresight as it comes up onto the aiming mark, let it settle and shoot.
In the past I was advised that you should close your eyes, breathe out, open your eyes and if the sight picture is correct - shoot.
I've subsequently found that watching (focusing on) the foresight as it comes up works better for me.
With that in mind, I would suggest another exercise too (f you don't do this already):
Line up on target & relax,
close eyes, breathe in, breathe out, open eyes, check NPA, adjust.
close eyes, breathe in, breathe out, open eyes, check NPA, confirm.
close eyes, breathe in, breathe out, SHOOT, open eyes, check NPA.
This process obliges you to focus on your inner position and trigger release.
Try 10 5-shot groups or 5 10-shot strings on NOPTEL and see how well you group.
Regards,
Ken.
Hey Kenny,
The only other refinement that I am going to try (in addition) is to allow the final breath release to raise the front sight directly onto the bull into the established NPA spot. Everything you mentioned will already be done and I will be able to utilize my O2 even more efficiently and break the shot even faster. My hold is not in question. It's around 5-7mm. So it's JUST the sight picture that needs these refinements.
Thanks. I have an excellent match to test this on next week. I'll let you know how it goes. Bart
The only other refinement that I am going to try (in addition) is to allow the final breath release to raise the front sight directly onto the bull into the established NPA spot. Everything you mentioned will already be done and I will be able to utilize my O2 even more efficiently and break the shot even faster. My hold is not in question. It's around 5-7mm. So it's JUST the sight picture that needs these refinements.
Thanks. I have an excellent match to test this on next week. I'll let you know how it goes. Bart
Bart
I know you are talking about imprinting however i have another concept for you to think about. I used to take quite some time to fire a shot and i tried to just speed up the process but then the result was generally poor. What we found was that when i was coming on to the target i would breath out really slowly it didnt seem to me like i was but that is what the coach at the time said. I then made myself get the air out quicker and everything improved i could still let it sit on target for an amount of time that felt comfortable and confidently shoot the shot also no O2 issues as that was generally spent in the breathing out to slow process the X count came up considerably.
Could be on the wrong track but thought i would mention it.
I know you are talking about imprinting however i have another concept for you to think about. I used to take quite some time to fire a shot and i tried to just speed up the process but then the result was generally poor. What we found was that when i was coming on to the target i would breath out really slowly it didnt seem to me like i was but that is what the coach at the time said. I then made myself get the air out quicker and everything improved i could still let it sit on target for an amount of time that felt comfortable and confidently shoot the shot also no O2 issues as that was generally spent in the breathing out to slow process the X count came up considerably.
Could be on the wrong track but thought i would mention it.