What does the F in the crown icon mean on Walther Pistols?

keithwwalker · Post by **keithwwalker** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:09 am

See the 'F' on the grip? What is it for?

Tycho · Post by **Tycho** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:43 am

"Fürstenberg" - it's their grip maker / factory.

keithwwalker · Post by **keithwwalker** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:03 pm

Thanks, found their site:
http://www.fuerstenberg-holzwaren.de/

-=ed · Post by **-=ed** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:30 am

Then why is there one on my Walther LG300 Hunter rifle (with a laminated stock.)

Anschutz · Post by **Anschutz** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:01 am

perhaps they made the stock ?

Tycho · Post by **Tycho** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:21 am

That's what they say on their website: "Gewehrschäfte, Griffe, Griffschalen für die Sportwaffenindustrie"...

TerryKuz · Post by **TerryKuz** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:57 am

A similar "F" crown marking denotes energy for airguns. It is like the FAC designation in England.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_gun_laws

In Germany, air guns producing a muzzle energy up to 7.5 joule (J) (5.53 ft·lbf) can be owned by persons from the age of 18 years and freely acquired, provided they comply with the "F-in-pentagon-mark" that indicates projectiles fired do not exceed 7.5 J (5.5 ft·lbf) kinetic energy. For carrying air guns in public places an arms permit is necessary. The transportation of unloaded and cased air guns to a shooting range is permitted as is shooting air guns on private land.

When shooting with air guns it must be assured the projectiles can not leave the shooting area (WaffG, Section 12 (exemption of permit requirements), subsection (4), 1a. The minimum age for air gun shooting in Germany is 18 years, before 19 June 2009 it minimum age was 12, or even 10 years if an exceptional provision was granted by the appropriate German authorities. The change was made because of the Winnenden school shooting.

For the acquisition of weapons exceeding 7.5 J, so-called long range air guns, according to German law a purchase authorization is needed. Such an authorization can only be issued with a valid reason to acquire such a gun, and if the owner has mastered adequate handling skills as audited by the appropriate German authorities.

A purchase authorization is not required for air guns, manufactured and introduced onto the market before 1 January 1970 in Germany or before 2 April 1991 on the territory of the former East Germany (WaffG, Appendix 2, Section 1, Subsection 2, 1.2); they can, regardless of their muzzle energy and/or the presence of an "F-in-pentagon-mark", be freely acquired and possessed.

The storage requirements for firearms also applies to air guns.

Tycho · Post by **Tycho** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:57 pm

Irrelevant, as the pistol is obviously not an AP, and the "F" in question is clearly on the grip, not on the frame.

keithwwalker · Post by **keithwwalker** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:54 pm

There is an 'AF' label on the frame as well as an icon, I wonder what that is for, or is it just standing for 'auto fire' or branding of some sort.

TerryKuz · Post by **TerryKuz** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:04 pm

Tycho wrote:Irrelevant, as the pistol is obviously not an AP, and the "F" in question is clearly on the grip, not on the frame.

-=ed Then why is there one on my Walther LG300 Hunter rifle (with a laminated stock.)

It is relevant to the question from ed concerning the LG300 air rifle.

Richard H · Post by **Richard H** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:48 pm

Terry I think you are getting the pentagon F mixed up with the F and Crown which is a grip and stock Manufactures symbol.

TerryKuz · Post by **TerryKuz** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:13 pm

Richard H wrote:Terry I think you are getting the pentagon F mixed up with the F and Crown which is a grip and stock Manufactures symbol.

Sorry to add confusion. I thought Ed was referring to the similar F pentagon symbol on airguns. The stock could have the F crown manufacture's code. I am not familiar with Walther air guns or their stock subcontractors. So do the Walther rifle stocks have the same F crown manufacturing symbol? Thanks.

keithwwalker · Post by **keithwwalker** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:48 am

-=ed wrote:Then why is there one on my Walther LG300 Hunter rifle (with a laminated stock.)

Umarex owns both companies, Walther and Fürstenberg, that is why it is on your stock?

-=ed · Post by **-=ed** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:02 am

I bought my rifles before Umerex bought Walther, I think.

The Dominator is an older version, [from the serial number]definitely before Umerx got into it, and it has the "F-crown"

Peculiar.

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:31 am

-=ed wrote:Peculiar.

Not particularly. Even if your Walther pre-dated their purchase by Umarex they could have had the stocks made by Fürstenberg.

-=ed · Post by **-=ed** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:47 am

Yeah, you're right.

sandy22 · Post by **sandy22** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:37 pm

keithwwalker wrote:There is an 'AF' label on the frame as well as an icon, I wonder what that is for, or is it just standing for 'auto fire' or branding of some sort.

It's the year code in the proof mark. I think AF is 2005. (A=0, B=1 & so on)

FrankD · Post by **FrankD** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:08 pm

Hi Terry,

our weapons law is a real big mess. We call it our monkey lay. Most lawyers have trouble to understand it right in some cases. You have a great understanding of our law, but some explanations need some corrections.

TerryKuz wrote: The minimum age for air gun shooting in Germany is 18 years, before 19 June 2009 it minimum age was 12, or even 10 years if an exceptional provision was granted by the appropriate German authorities. The change was made because of the Winnenden school shooting.

Shooting with air guns is still allowed form the age of 12 or with special authorization even younger. Minimum for shooting small bore and shotgun is 14. What has changed is big bore to over 18. What you mean is the ownership of a gun. Here you must over 25 for big bore and over 18 for the rest. The first part from the last sentence is new from last year June.

TerryKuz wrote: The storage requirements for firearms also applies to air guns.

You don't need a special safe for an airgun, only for firearms. But you need a small padlock on your case for transportation. If you do not have this padlock it's a criminal matter and you go for a court.

Best regards from silly old Germany and excuse my bad english

Frank

German weapons law

TerryKuz · Post by **TerryKuz** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:25 am

FrankD,
I don't want to imply that I have any knowledge of German gun laws. The information in my prior post was a direct cut and paste from wiki (with the attached link for reference). Thanks for your commentary concerning the laws. In the US, things are also very confusing because there are competing federal, state, and local laws. I live in Pennsylvania, and in my section of the state, firearms are very accepted. Again, thank you for your contribution.

FrankD · Post by **FrankD** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:47 pm

Hi Terry,

i have read the wiki and i must say it is wrong in some parts. Lucky for us. If this law come true some day then the game is over for sports shooting in Germany. We are a shooting nation, but we have much trouble, most with our press and with some politicians. So it is difficult for us to get young people for our sports. If shooting under 18 is not allowed, then we can go playing Golf. But you now, golf clubs are are very dangerous. You can kill people with them. It's only a question of time for a new law.

It is so crazy. Shooting is a such a peaceful and friendly sport with so nice people all over the world. But some idiots without any knowledge think we are all killers, because we use weapons. We have now the bad situation when somebody is killed with a gun, then it was likely a sports shooter. So the meaning of our press. Our federal police says always legal guns do not play any role in crimes. But the trueness is not interesting for our press and for some of our people.

Best regards from Germany

Frank