I posted this as a reply in the Cheerleading Title IX thread, so if you've read that, this is the same thing.
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I can elaborate on the benefits to being an NCAA Rifle Student-Athlete. I'm majoring in Sports Management and we had an in depth debate on whether NCAA student-athletes should get paid. The group which said that said no, which I agree with, did an excellent interview study (trying to get my hands on the data, but not having much luck, turns out some of the info was deemed "confidential" by one school, not sure which, gotta love compliance offices). They interviewed 30-40 student-athletes from the Big Four schools here in NC (NCSU, UNC, Duke, and Wake Forest). The information they were looking for were the hidden, but measurable and quantifiable benefits to being a student athlete. For example:
Range Time
Coaching
Ammo
Targets
Sports Med
Tutoring (Drop-in and scheduled)
Computer Lab Access
Strength and Conditioning coaches
Gym Access
Printing
Insurance though AD
Travel expenses for matches (Gas, van, flights, food allowance)
Note those numbers do not include any scholarships or financial aid. Using their numbers when they interviewed me, I was receiving about $20,000 a year in benefits. Using the numbers I have now for when I would need/do these things, I come up with just under $30,000 per year.
They mentioned a number of athletes (basketball and football as you can guess), that easily made it into the $100,000s, and a few who had large medical expenses for injuries covered by the schools who topped $1,000,000. I personally broke my foot one season and the school covered my expenses except for the initial x-rays (they would have covered that too had I followed procedure at the time of the accident, but procedure wasn't on my mind). That accident was a drop in my bucket though as it wasn't a bad break.
Some intangible benefits are the friendships you make, the people there to help you adapt to college life, the free stuff you get (clothes, food, tickets) from time to time, an extra academic adviser to keep track of your grades, the memories you make, the line on your resume about being an NCAA Student-Athlete that screams team player to employers.
It was also mentioned that the small number of schools hamstrings shooters in where they can attend. Very much not true at best, or irrelevant at worst. The diversity of those schools with programs allows for someone to find the degree they want. Sure, it may be farther away than they intended, but their degree is the important part. And the fact that the vast majority of shooters are excellent students expands the possibilities of receiving scholarships. You're doing very, VERY well if you receive a 50% scholarship from the team. Rifle teams only get 3.6 scholarships max, but that doesn't mean every team has funding for a full 3.6.
But this all becomes irrelevant when the point is made that you are not going to college to major in rifle. There is no pro draft. The list of Americans who make their living off our style of shooting is very, Very, VERY short. If you need to go to a specific school for a degree and it doesn't offer rifle, then that is the right school to attend. Going elsewhere means risking one's future, or making sacrifices for one's future.
But if your school doesn't offer NCAA rifle, then shoot club rifle. If your school doesn't have club rifle, then start it (call Tori Croft at the NRA for help on how to do this). Or instead of starting the club, continue to attend and shoot matches as you have in the past as you can amongst your studies. College is the end of too many people's shooting careers and it doesn't have to be.
Benefits to Shooting in College and other thoughts
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
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Good Point
Who want's to compile Data?
Sure would be nice if someone would do a study of several rifle teams and put this information out officially…
I do some light recruiting for the University of Utah Shooting Club and our "marketing materials" talk about how the shooting clubs help nurture dedication, focus and excellence.
We have a quote from a good local lawyer who stated that without his experience on the team, he wouldn't have passed the bar exam. When he elaborated he said that he didn't have the patience and ability to focus long enough to study effectively before he started shooting.
There are some other stats out there that show that the members of shooting teams usually have a higher than average GPA. Does our sport appeal more to students with higher GPA's or does shooting foster higher GPA's? I don't know.
Oz
We have a quote from a good local lawyer who stated that without his experience on the team, he wouldn't have passed the bar exam. When he elaborated he said that he didn't have the patience and ability to focus long enough to study effectively before he started shooting.
There are some other stats out there that show that the members of shooting teams usually have a higher than average GPA. Does our sport appeal more to students with higher GPA's or does shooting foster higher GPA's? I don't know.
Oz
The out of shooting benefits are very limited even harmful at times. List on your job application--rifle team or any other kind of gun sport and you risk being "round filed". Unless an Gold metal or 2 at a World championship or Oly. Games is listed.
True there is no pro draft post college for shooting . But there is the military option. AND Uncle Sam will help you get an advanced degree too! Not all go to AMTU. All the services have teams as do the guard, reserves, etc Yes the majority is Hipower but hey! is is lead down range.
Most college shooters when their eligibility is up HAVE to sell their equipment ( if they used their own which MANY do), to pay for loans and the other post college expenses. Just look at the Buy Sell Trade post in this forum...If you read posts carefully, look at ID/handles, etc you can tell they are ending their shooting careers. Few if any continue unless in the elite class, wealthy as Midas, or choose to have no life ( just kidding), or choose to be a shooting bum ( Kidding again). I tried after college for 10 years in smallbore but just could not get the range time, time off from work, travel, entry fees, ammo costs, get advanced or "state of the art" equipment ( the equipment race was the MAJOR factor), so on and so forth. Yes I did diversify my shooting to other diciplines.....less of an equipment race, less equipment to lug around, lower fees, more competitions locally. But SB position and was my first love and you never forget it.
True there is no pro draft post college for shooting . But there is the military option. AND Uncle Sam will help you get an advanced degree too! Not all go to AMTU. All the services have teams as do the guard, reserves, etc Yes the majority is Hipower but hey! is is lead down range.
Most college shooters when their eligibility is up HAVE to sell their equipment ( if they used their own which MANY do), to pay for loans and the other post college expenses. Just look at the Buy Sell Trade post in this forum...If you read posts carefully, look at ID/handles, etc you can tell they are ending their shooting careers. Few if any continue unless in the elite class, wealthy as Midas, or choose to have no life ( just kidding), or choose to be a shooting bum ( Kidding again). I tried after college for 10 years in smallbore but just could not get the range time, time off from work, travel, entry fees, ammo costs, get advanced or "state of the art" equipment ( the equipment race was the MAJOR factor), so on and so forth. Yes I did diversify my shooting to other diciplines.....less of an equipment race, less equipment to lug around, lower fees, more competitions locally. But SB position and was my first love and you never forget it.
In case there are any junior shooters out there looking at maybe wanting to shoot in college, there are a good series of articles that Brad Donoho at CMP has written ... a good starter for gathering info .... go to the CMP website and look thru the issues of On The Mark (OTM)
Some hints:
1) Start early in your HS "career". Service academy coaches can begin talking with you in your junior year ... other schools your senior year.
2) Get started EARLY with the NCAA Clearinghouse ... you must meet minimum academic requirements (the courses you take & pass in HS) for a coach to offer you a scholarship ... researching this early will guide you into the proper classes to take. Your HS counselor knows about this and can help you.
3) Start now in building your shooting resume ... hey! ... that shooting log/diary your coach is always trying to get you to write into? ... use it to record things for that resume
4) Try and attend some national comps ... while the coaches may not be able to talk to you about scholarships & such, you can certainly introduce yourself & make a good impression.
Some hints:
1) Start early in your HS "career". Service academy coaches can begin talking with you in your junior year ... other schools your senior year.
2) Get started EARLY with the NCAA Clearinghouse ... you must meet minimum academic requirements (the courses you take & pass in HS) for a coach to offer you a scholarship ... researching this early will guide you into the proper classes to take. Your HS counselor knows about this and can help you.
3) Start now in building your shooting resume ... hey! ... that shooting log/diary your coach is always trying to get you to write into? ... use it to record things for that resume
4) Try and attend some national comps ... while the coaches may not be able to talk to you about scholarships & such, you can certainly introduce yourself & make a good impression.
Going through the start of this topic here there are many good points, I also see a few places where I am going to throw in my 2 cents as the Devil's Advocate.
While it does not need to be shooting I fully support the idea that every student should participate in some kind of physical club or sport activity, shooting, sailing, bowling I don't care anything that gets them away from the desk, the computer, etc and encourages actual face to face social contact and a little moving around is a good thing.
Having spent about 15 years or so of my life involved with colleges and universities I am not sure I support the idea of going to a large school that has shooting with the notion that with all those departments there has to be something interesting enough to major in. Every college or university campus has its own personality and if the student and that campus have a personality clash no amount of shooting or any other club activity is going to fix the underlying unhappiness. As pointed out, shooting might be a great activity and outlet but in the USA people do not make a living off from shooting (at least not ISSF smallbore) and that should be kept in perspective.
When looking for schools with shooting programs prospective students should evaluate how much they want to shoot and at what level then evaluate the prospective programs. Should a student have their eyes on a slot with the national team they would do well to be looking at one of the top five or so NCAA schools. Then service academies might not work as there is obligated service following graduation. (For officers spending too much time on shooting teams is typically the kiss of death for career aspirations.) If they just want to do some recreational shooting then there are a significant number of club programs out there where they can shoot a bit go back to the dorm and go do something else. It should be noted that the NRA does publish a list of colleges with shooting programs, there are however a number of schools on that list where the program is little more than a gun safety program as there seems to be no record of these schools participating in organized competition.
In this day and age getting a club started at a school can be very much hit or miss and a longshot at best. A few years back while I was a graduate student I found a range and a small number of student fiddling about wth 3P. I gave them some coaching and had gotten them organized and out to some competition. Then the axe fell, while I suspect I know who, I will never know what was said to folks in administrative control, but one morning I showed up at the range to learn I had been declared persona non grata (no details of supposed offense given) and to get my things and leave. The club disintegrated shortly after. Regrettably the NRA was of little assistance in trying to investigate or resolve the matter. There are two lessons there: If you are organizing a club be careful how much effort you put in, it can be declared null and void in a heartbeat. If you are a student going to a school for a shooting club or team be aware that low visibility activities can be quickly cut for any number of reasons.
Just my 2 cents
'Dude
While it does not need to be shooting I fully support the idea that every student should participate in some kind of physical club or sport activity, shooting, sailing, bowling I don't care anything that gets them away from the desk, the computer, etc and encourages actual face to face social contact and a little moving around is a good thing.
Having spent about 15 years or so of my life involved with colleges and universities I am not sure I support the idea of going to a large school that has shooting with the notion that with all those departments there has to be something interesting enough to major in. Every college or university campus has its own personality and if the student and that campus have a personality clash no amount of shooting or any other club activity is going to fix the underlying unhappiness. As pointed out, shooting might be a great activity and outlet but in the USA people do not make a living off from shooting (at least not ISSF smallbore) and that should be kept in perspective.
When looking for schools with shooting programs prospective students should evaluate how much they want to shoot and at what level then evaluate the prospective programs. Should a student have their eyes on a slot with the national team they would do well to be looking at one of the top five or so NCAA schools. Then service academies might not work as there is obligated service following graduation. (For officers spending too much time on shooting teams is typically the kiss of death for career aspirations.) If they just want to do some recreational shooting then there are a significant number of club programs out there where they can shoot a bit go back to the dorm and go do something else. It should be noted that the NRA does publish a list of colleges with shooting programs, there are however a number of schools on that list where the program is little more than a gun safety program as there seems to be no record of these schools participating in organized competition.
In this day and age getting a club started at a school can be very much hit or miss and a longshot at best. A few years back while I was a graduate student I found a range and a small number of student fiddling about wth 3P. I gave them some coaching and had gotten them organized and out to some competition. Then the axe fell, while I suspect I know who, I will never know what was said to folks in administrative control, but one morning I showed up at the range to learn I had been declared persona non grata (no details of supposed offense given) and to get my things and leave. The club disintegrated shortly after. Regrettably the NRA was of little assistance in trying to investigate or resolve the matter. There are two lessons there: If you are organizing a club be careful how much effort you put in, it can be declared null and void in a heartbeat. If you are a student going to a school for a shooting club or team be aware that low visibility activities can be quickly cut for any number of reasons.
Just my 2 cents
'Dude
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Roodaddy600
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:15 pm
Actually some people do make a living in the USA shooting ISSF. Not many mind you, but a handful do. Its not the living a lawyer makes or a doctor but CAN BE a decent living if you are willing to put forth the time and effort it takes to be able to do it. And no I am not talking about us here in the USAMU.
Shane
Shane