Hello Folks,
I am in need of some real help. I am my wits end.
Ny problem is about prone shooting at 100 Yds. Actually most of my practice (if you can call it that ) is at 50 feet with an A17 reduced target.
Boiling it down...
Should prone position be comfortable? I have read through "Ways of the rifle" been to several prone matches as an observer, scoured the internet, and praticed trying to set up a position till my elbows are raw.
But still I cannot find a prone position tha is comfortable.
Comfortable would defined as a postion where the following does not happen.
The rifle is not pressed so tightly into my shoulder that I get a black and blue after shooting
That the my cheek touches the rifle at consitently the correct distance for proper eye relief, with out hunching forward.
That my left arm is so tired after a few minutes of holding the rifle that I cannot finish a 30 shot match.
I am using a sling, a leather type.
The rifles I have to shoot are a CZ 452 and a Anschutz Model 54 Match.
I am 6 feet tall, and heavy, ok fat, at 290 Lbs
Are there any large prone shooters in the group.
Living here in Connecticut are there any coaches that might be able to help out.
Please help out if you can.
Thank you
PauLC
W1VLF
NEWBIE needs help with prone shooting
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
First things first. Can you lay down without a rifle and find a comfortable position? If not, you'll need to do stretching exercises (and perhaps table "push-aways", at 5'9" and 250 I have similar physique problems).
If you can get comfortable without a rifle, then it is a matter of making the rifle fit you. Easily done with a fully adjustable stock, and some help from a friend. Just loosen all stock adjustments, get into position and have the friens move the adjustments until the "fit" feels good.
Without an adjustable stock you have to begin cutting on the stock if it is too long, or adding to it if too short.
Try and borrow a fully adjustable stock, get it set uop for you, then make measurements of stock length, etc.
You may also have to build up the cheek area (old targets and duct tape is a good start, and easily modified). Once you get it right you can do something better looking.
Debbie Lyman is the CMP state Junior Director (dlyman@snet.net), and may be able to direct you to a coach.
Hope this helps.
If you can get comfortable without a rifle, then it is a matter of making the rifle fit you. Easily done with a fully adjustable stock, and some help from a friend. Just loosen all stock adjustments, get into position and have the friens move the adjustments until the "fit" feels good.
Without an adjustable stock you have to begin cutting on the stock if it is too long, or adding to it if too short.
Try and borrow a fully adjustable stock, get it set uop for you, then make measurements of stock length, etc.
You may also have to build up the cheek area (old targets and duct tape is a good start, and easily modified). Once you get it right you can do something better looking.
Debbie Lyman is the CMP state Junior Director (dlyman@snet.net), and may be able to direct you to a coach.
Hope this helps.
-
2650 Plus
Uncomfortable prone position
What was just posted !!! Also spend enough time in the position and you will find that it becomes comfortable enough for you to go to sleep in the position. That is when you are ready to shoot prone. Hang in there,spend the time . Good SHootiing Bill Horton
-
Roodaddy600
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:15 pm
Go to sleep in prone? Im pretty sure I would lose the use of my left arm if I fell asleep in prone. Your arm is going to be a little sore, thats why you see the guys on my team take breaks during the 60 shot matches. You dont want to hold the rifle with your muscles but your hand being pushed against the stock with a tight sling will restrict blood flow. Period. Therefore, its going to hurt a little and even go to sleep. Nothing wrong with that it happens to everyone thats at the top. Just take your breaks and you will be fine.
Shane
Shane
some tips:
with your physical size, you will need the brought up leg position to "lift" your torso up some to assist on your elbow position. The straight leg technique really will not work. Some the advice given so far is good. The taking breaks method can work in competition shooting, but in some courses of fire you cannot go back to your sighter. So breaking your position is a negative unless you are in severe PAIN. In the US the VAST majority of prone shooting are 1600 events consisting of 40 shot courses with sighters allowed after target changes. This allows you to get the blood back into your hand/arm if needed. The phrases" no pain. no gain" and "if it does not hurt you not doing it right" is FALSE. You can wear pads on the elbows inside you coat in NRA rules, a big thick glove too. Work on getting the sling to support the arm and rifle in a balanceing act, use the bone/joint structure as an ASSIST to the support. Depending on the stock configuration of the prone gun you like best ( trigger, rail and cheek piece) you may have to do some cobbling to build up the forend to "lift" your position up some. You may not be able to get into a low-prone position so settle for a comfortable high position.
with your physical size, you will need the brought up leg position to "lift" your torso up some to assist on your elbow position. The straight leg technique really will not work. Some the advice given so far is good. The taking breaks method can work in competition shooting, but in some courses of fire you cannot go back to your sighter. So breaking your position is a negative unless you are in severe PAIN. In the US the VAST majority of prone shooting are 1600 events consisting of 40 shot courses with sighters allowed after target changes. This allows you to get the blood back into your hand/arm if needed. The phrases" no pain. no gain" and "if it does not hurt you not doing it right" is FALSE. You can wear pads on the elbows inside you coat in NRA rules, a big thick glove too. Work on getting the sling to support the arm and rifle in a balanceing act, use the bone/joint structure as an ASSIST to the support. Depending on the stock configuration of the prone gun you like best ( trigger, rail and cheek piece) you may have to do some cobbling to build up the forend to "lift" your position up some. You may not be able to get into a low-prone position so settle for a comfortable high position.
-
Telecomtodd
- Posts: 221
- Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:15 pm
- Location: Saint Charles, MO
I agree with Xman, and resemble Pat, LOL. Add wide shoulders and you have my nightmare of a shooter's physique. Anyone else wear a Size 50 shooting coat??
I also have endurance (heart) problems although I wear elbow pads, a good coat, and a good glove. My secret to success this year has taken a lot of practice to get it right, but due to the measured speed of my typical shot plan for a match, I'll shoot my sighters and 10 record shots within about 8-9 minutes and then take a programmed 1-minute break for rest. I don't disconnect the sling, but I pull my sling hand out, lay flat on my belly and rest. That still gives me 10 minutes for my last 10 record shots, and I'm amazingly fresh while the barrel is still warm. On my last 1200 metric match, my final two 50 yard bulls were my day's best - and I hate those darn A-51 targets.
I have to tell the RSO about my breaks. A good friend of mine was RSOing a match when I took one of these breaks, and he thought I had passed out. Broke my concentration and his patience level with me, LOL. Now I make his life easier when scoring by reducing my dropped shot counts - he doesn't have to take off his shoes to count any more.
Get comfortable, get the gun adjusted to you, and think about in-position rest. At least a couple of hours with a good coach would be very helpful.
If someone could take digital pictures of your position, I'd be happy to look at them.
DE N2XL
I also have endurance (heart) problems although I wear elbow pads, a good coat, and a good glove. My secret to success this year has taken a lot of practice to get it right, but due to the measured speed of my typical shot plan for a match, I'll shoot my sighters and 10 record shots within about 8-9 minutes and then take a programmed 1-minute break for rest. I don't disconnect the sling, but I pull my sling hand out, lay flat on my belly and rest. That still gives me 10 minutes for my last 10 record shots, and I'm amazingly fresh while the barrel is still warm. On my last 1200 metric match, my final two 50 yard bulls were my day's best - and I hate those darn A-51 targets.
I have to tell the RSO about my breaks. A good friend of mine was RSOing a match when I took one of these breaks, and he thought I had passed out. Broke my concentration and his patience level with me, LOL. Now I make his life easier when scoring by reducing my dropped shot counts - he doesn't have to take off his shoes to count any more.
Get comfortable, get the gun adjusted to you, and think about in-position rest. At least a couple of hours with a good coach would be very helpful.
If someone could take digital pictures of your position, I'd be happy to look at them.
DE N2XL
"The rifle is not pressed so tightly into my shoulder that I get a black and blue after shooting
That the my cheek touches the rifle at consitently the correct distance for proper eye relief, with out hunching forward.
That my left arm is so tired after a few minutes of holding the rifle that I cannot finish a 30 shot match"
Yes, all of these can be worked through BUT it does take time. The rifle pressed so hard it makes you bruised is simply adjusting your sling, and body alignment in order to find the find fit for your body. Most people in high power shooting wear a thick sweatshirt, which might help you. Most prone positions are approximately 15-20 degrees off center, so adjusting from there is a good start.
The cheek weld can be dependant on the rifle, if you cannot adjust the rifle then you have to make sure your head placement is perfect everytime. it's just a part of shooting a non-adjustable rifle. A key part I might add.
If your support arm is getting tired it tells me your sling tension is not right. Sling tension works in coordination with your forward hand placement fore and aft. I use a mit over a glove to help slow the numbing and help add elevation to the front sight.
I worked through all of this in order to improve at service rifle shooting (non-adjustable rifle). I did it all in front of the t.v. at night over a period of several weeks. Just try one thing a night. try and lay there for 20 minutes, or the allotted time of your match period. If you can't get comfortable try to change one thing the next night. Keep a training log so you don't repeat efforts.
I've seen all body types on the rifle range and any type can shoot well.
That the my cheek touches the rifle at consitently the correct distance for proper eye relief, with out hunching forward.
That my left arm is so tired after a few minutes of holding the rifle that I cannot finish a 30 shot match"
Yes, all of these can be worked through BUT it does take time. The rifle pressed so hard it makes you bruised is simply adjusting your sling, and body alignment in order to find the find fit for your body. Most people in high power shooting wear a thick sweatshirt, which might help you. Most prone positions are approximately 15-20 degrees off center, so adjusting from there is a good start.
The cheek weld can be dependant on the rifle, if you cannot adjust the rifle then you have to make sure your head placement is perfect everytime. it's just a part of shooting a non-adjustable rifle. A key part I might add.
If your support arm is getting tired it tells me your sling tension is not right. Sling tension works in coordination with your forward hand placement fore and aft. I use a mit over a glove to help slow the numbing and help add elevation to the front sight.
I worked through all of this in order to improve at service rifle shooting (non-adjustable rifle). I did it all in front of the t.v. at night over a period of several weeks. Just try one thing a night. try and lay there for 20 minutes, or the allotted time of your match period. If you can't get comfortable try to change one thing the next night. Keep a training log so you don't repeat efforts.
I've seen all body types on the rifle range and any type can shoot well.
-
Roodaddy600
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:15 pm
Taking a break is never a negative. PERIOD. Watch the international shooters, you cant go back to sighters and we still take breaks. Practice this and you can put the rifle back in the same place and shoot tens immediately after a break. You watch anyone that makes international finals and I will promise you they take breaks during their sixty shot match. Some of them even get up and completely out of position. Most will just take the rifle out of their shoulder and relax their arm, but again its something you have to practice. Many of us take breaks so that we dont get to the point of severe pain. And how can you say most matches shot in the US are 1600 type. thats not true at all. It just depends what matches you shoot. If you shoot NRA then yes it will be that way, if you shoot USA shooting style and it will be the international course of fire which is the 60 shot english match.
Roo..Roodaddy600 wrote:And how can you say most matches shot in the US are 1600 type. thats not true at all. It just depends what matches you shoot. If you shoot NRA then yes it will be that way, if you shoot USA shooting style and it will be the international course of fire which is the 60 shot english match.
Well looking and comparing NRAs Shooting Sports USA and the USA Shooting match listings, CONVENTIONAL prone (1600, 3200 and 6400's )outnumber the "international prone" listings of both NRA and USA Shooting. The original poster brought up 100yd shooting so as 100yd is not an "international" course of fire ...only 50 meter or 50m reduced to 50yrd, I chose to reference the conventional aspect for his information. He will find more conventional matches to watch/shoot and learn at than international.