Looking to lose 200gr off the 1100gr original weight.
Has anybody tried this, can you share how?
Suggestion for weight reduction on an IZH 46M
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
Forum rules
If you wish to make a donation to this forum's operation , it would be greatly appreciated.
https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/targettalk?yours=true
If you wish to make a donation to this forum's operation , it would be greatly appreciated.
https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/targettalk?yours=true
Geez, there's nothing to take off!
Shorten compression tube and barrel, redesign cocking linkage, learn to deal with lower velocity, and build up forearms because it will be harder to cock.
What's the weight on a FAS?
In anything like the same quality and price ball park, the TAU Junior might be worth a look.
I don't think there's a practical solution to lightening an IZH.
By the time your machinist is paid, an Aeron or other junior is probably no more expensive.
Shorten compression tube and barrel, redesign cocking linkage, learn to deal with lower velocity, and build up forearms because it will be harder to cock.
What's the weight on a FAS?
In anything like the same quality and price ball park, the TAU Junior might be worth a look.
I don't think there's a practical solution to lightening an IZH.
By the time your machinist is paid, an Aeron or other junior is probably no more expensive.
How about...
a removable cocking lever?
Re: How about...
I think that removale cocking lever as Fwb 103 is the only way to go.vin wrote:a removable cocking lever?
-
kevinweiho
- Posts: 949
- Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:44 pm
- Location: Costa Rica, Central America
weight reduction on Izzy 46M
Paulo:
In my opinion to reduce the weight on the IZH46M, you
would have to replace the steel lugs (part nº 23 & 26) with either duralumin or ABS/PVC plastic.
Also it would be nice to manufacture the cocking lever out of high impact fiberglass reinforced thermoplastic.
Kevho
Airgun aficionado from Costa Rica, C.A.
In my opinion to reduce the weight on the IZH46M, you
would have to replace the steel lugs (part nº 23 & 26) with either duralumin or ABS/PVC plastic.
Also it would be nice to manufacture the cocking lever out of high impact fiberglass reinforced thermoplastic.
Kevho
Airgun aficionado from Costa Rica, C.A.
weight reduction project
Exploded view http://www.pilkguns.com/tenp/izh46ex.htm
Parts 23 and 26 are aluminum and extremely light, teflon which was my initial choice for replacement is heavier.
The cocking lever is aluminum except for the ending, the aluminum is very light, and we felt we should not take away from the steel because of all the forces being pulled there.
Cut a rectangle off the front sites mount, cut two oblong openings on the sides of the cylinder right after the shaft of the cocking lever is located, extended the opening at the top, in a smaller width, where the piston back stop is located, now I will be cutting the tree/grip of to a slim version.
My grandsons introduced me to bouncing clay, this is a synthetic clay like the name says, but it keeps shape and as an almost negative weight after it dries, sort of styrofoam, very interesting stuff for grip lining. I tried it on the original IZH grips just to test it and IT WORKS great.
Parts 23 and 26 are aluminum and extremely light, teflon which was my initial choice for replacement is heavier.
The cocking lever is aluminum except for the ending, the aluminum is very light, and we felt we should not take away from the steel because of all the forces being pulled there.
Cut a rectangle off the front sites mount, cut two oblong openings on the sides of the cylinder right after the shaft of the cocking lever is located, extended the opening at the top, in a smaller width, where the piston back stop is located, now I will be cutting the tree/grip of to a slim version.
My grandsons introduced me to bouncing clay, this is a synthetic clay like the name says, but it keeps shape and as an almost negative weight after it dries, sort of styrofoam, very interesting stuff for grip lining. I tried it on the original IZH grips just to test it and IT WORKS great.
Locating a US manufacturer of Filament Wound Carbon Tube, this is the type of tubing to use under pressure situations.
All the weight I got off still leaves the gun very heavy for me.
Just afraid the pumping action will create too much stress on the tube and consequently on the attached barrel. I will find out soon.
All the weight I got off still leaves the gun very heavy for me.
Just afraid the pumping action will create too much stress on the tube and consequently on the attached barrel. I will find out soon.
Does anybody know the psi's that the IZH 46M creates after pumping?
The inner diameter of the cylinder is 2,5 cm, and the chamber is 10cm long, the piston travel 9,4cm, and the rubber piston as crevasses and the chamber that leads to the trigger is also an open space.
I calculated just for the 6mm dead chamber space, and the psi's were astronomical 747 psi's.
Compression ratios got to be somewhere in the range of 12 to 9.5 or 178 psi-138psi. With a 6mm dead chamber I get 16.7 compression ratio, which has to be wrong.
In a coarse calculation if an aluminum cylinder at around 200 psi's gives 520 fts, and the IZH is on average 420fts, I would get around 160 psi's.
The person that builds carbon fiber tubes needs to know the pressure it will be under to use the proper wounding pattern.
If anybody knows the approximate number I would appreciate it.
The inner diameter of the cylinder is 2,5 cm, and the chamber is 10cm long, the piston travel 9,4cm, and the rubber piston as crevasses and the chamber that leads to the trigger is also an open space.
I calculated just for the 6mm dead chamber space, and the psi's were astronomical 747 psi's.
Compression ratios got to be somewhere in the range of 12 to 9.5 or 178 psi-138psi. With a 6mm dead chamber I get 16.7 compression ratio, which has to be wrong.
In a coarse calculation if an aluminum cylinder at around 200 psi's gives 520 fts, and the IZH is on average 420fts, I would get around 160 psi's.
The person that builds carbon fiber tubes needs to know the pressure it will be under to use the proper wounding pattern.
If anybody knows the approximate number I would appreciate it.
Two more weeks to D Day
The carbon fiber tube necessary for the cylinder exchange attempt is 25mm inner radius.
I was only able to get one inch pipe, so we have very little metal to do the thread on, 0.0111" to be exact, boy are they going to be precise on that threading if they can pull it off.
Also fabricating all the pumping levers in carbon fiber plate, it will be interesting to see the final weight.
If anybody knows a US shop that sales metric carbon tubing I would appreciate you sharing the contact.
I was only able to get one inch pipe, so we have very little metal to do the thread on, 0.0111" to be exact, boy are they going to be precise on that threading if they can pull it off.
Also fabricating all the pumping levers in carbon fiber plate, it will be interesting to see the final weight.
If anybody knows a US shop that sales metric carbon tubing I would appreciate you sharing the contact.
-
luftskytter-
I am having fun and the cost will be below $125.00, worth it to me.
The machinist is being reasonable, lucky me.
I have tried most high end air guns, I have not been convinced by any, but if this project doesn't work, my front runners are the FWB P40 exactly because is very light, and the Walther 3000 because of the great balance, I am combining the two ideas into a very accurate gun.
As I said if it doesn't work I will buy a new/used one, so all the sellers and dealers talking fear into me can be reassured, there will be money left for you.
The machinist is being reasonable, lucky me.
I have tried most high end air guns, I have not been convinced by any, but if this project doesn't work, my front runners are the FWB P40 exactly because is very light, and the Walther 3000 because of the great balance, I am combining the two ideas into a very accurate gun.
As I said if it doesn't work I will buy a new/used one, so all the sellers and dealers talking fear into me can be reassured, there will be money left for you.
Last edited by paulo on Fri May 14, 2010 7:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
-
No Fault
luftskytter- wrote:Amazing:
How much time and money are you prepared to spend, just to reduce the weight of a cheapie Russion pump-pistol?
There are other very fine single pump guns out there from wellknown European makers......
Hey!! this cheapie Russian pump-pistol gets alot of people into the AP game and maybe a future elite shooter. Denegrating it shows your snobby attitude. Not everyone can drop a $1000 into a AP right off the bat. Let Paulo do his experiment. Maybe we all can learn something from it. And I dont mean "what a waste of time" either.
Exactly, this is a great junior gun that can stay with a competitor with some minor changes, but many kids can't take the full weight, I know my grandsons can't.
I am not doing this for me, I think I can afford a new gun, but many clubs that want to start junior teams can't.
If an affordable weight reduction can be easily accomplished we all gain from it.
PS.The new alpha project air gun is exactly that, but the IZH doesn't require CO2 or compressed air accessories, just pellets and that is appealing to a beginner.
I am not doing this for me, I think I can afford a new gun, but many clubs that want to start junior teams can't.
If an affordable weight reduction can be easily accomplished we all gain from it.
PS.The new alpha project air gun is exactly that, but the IZH doesn't require CO2 or compressed air accessories, just pellets and that is appealing to a beginner.
I don't think No Fault is fair to luftskytter.
The IZH 46 is a whale of a gun for the money, about 95% of the value of ANY AP at 20-30% of the price.
I have 3 of them, all set up for silhouette.
I have them because they're cheap. Not low quality, but inexpensive.
Paulo has access to machine service cheap. But retail for machine time and design is very expensive, especially for a one-off project, which is what this will be for anybody else who wants to follow suit.
Projects are fun, especially if you put no dollar amount on your time.
But for the general AP public needing something lighter than a 46, a different gun should be sought. To take a $350 gun and double the price with handmade components and machine time makes no economic sense.
I applaud Paolo's gumption and look forward to seeing the result, but see little applicability to the general shooter.
The IZH 46 is a whale of a gun for the money, about 95% of the value of ANY AP at 20-30% of the price.
I have 3 of them, all set up for silhouette.
I have them because they're cheap. Not low quality, but inexpensive.
Paulo has access to machine service cheap. But retail for machine time and design is very expensive, especially for a one-off project, which is what this will be for anybody else who wants to follow suit.
Projects are fun, especially if you put no dollar amount on your time.
But for the general AP public needing something lighter than a 46, a different gun should be sought. To take a $350 gun and double the price with handmade components and machine time makes no economic sense.
I applaud Paolo's gumption and look forward to seeing the result, but see little applicability to the general shooter.
-
Guest