Fiocchi used to (maybe still does) seat the bullets waayyy deep in the case and then put on a very heavy roll crimp.
What I would do first, because it costs nothing, is to put a heavy roll crimp on the case. I would also try seating the bullets deeper. Then I would try a combination of the two.
A small Lee press and dies costs very little.
PM me for a cheap set of dies.
SP20 .32 ammo
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Strange that the Lapua web site has pictures clearly showing the edge of the bullet flush with the end of the case.
You are right about the Lapua.........I checked my 32 samples with the deep seated lead as declared and they are Fiocchi ( head stamped GFL ) and not Lapua . sorry my error and yes they are waaaay deep with no exposed button
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POPeye as guest
It appears to me that the Lapua website shows the projectiles being seated deeper than just flush with the top of the case (1mm).
Further, and more importantly, the crimp appears to be light, so that the case does not flare, and is not overly crimped.
To do otherwise may result in splitting the skirt?
Further, and more importantly, the crimp appears to be light, so that the case does not flare, and is not overly crimped.
To do otherwise may result in splitting the skirt?
Your almost there, looking at an enlargment of your photo shows a modest roll crimp . All you have to do is seat the bullet flush. Just push the round against your work bench and it will likely seat further quite easily. then you are good to go with the slight roll in the case rim. Its the lead that is sticking on the ramp and then snaps up directly in the top of the chamber , instant jam. With the lead seated deeper, it will be the brass that contacts the ramp and no stickee, just slides up the ramp and into the sweet spot just like it was made to do. The problem is the reload with the exposed lead. There is no reason why it is exposed. The reloader is likely thinking that the crimp is holding the bullet captive from recoil so that it wont come out of the case resulting in a overall length that would cause failing to load conditions. But if the round is below the roll crimp it can't come out anyway, not to mention it's probably the lowest recoiling center fire pistol cartridge made
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David Levene
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julioalperi
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Pictures of Fiocchi .32 S&W Long WC
Fiocchi factory loaded bought in 2009.
Julio
Julio
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julioalperi
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COL
Cartridge Overall Length??
I´ve measured 15 cartridges with a digital caliper.
23,17 mm
23,19
23,18
23,13
23,15
23,14
23,17
23,17
23,18
23,08
23,09
23,12
23,13
23,16
23,16
Average length=23.148 mm
I´ve measured 15 cartridges with a digital caliper.
23,17 mm
23,19
23,18
23,13
23,15
23,14
23,17
23,17
23,18
23,08
23,09
23,12
23,13
23,16
23,16
Average length=23.148 mm
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David Levene
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I would have thought that even a fairly heavy roll crimp would only shorten the overall cass length by a tiny amount (if at all); certainly within the normal manufacturing tolerance of a commercial rimmed case.buonvento wrote:Cartridge Overall Lenght equal to Case Overall Lenght (considering the roll crimp)? I'm a little bit confused...
David, this is what I'm asking myself:
1) we all know that factory cartridges have the bullets seated flush with a medium-heavy roll crimp;
2) we know also (thanks to julioalperi...) that the average cartridge length is 23.15 mm (for Fiocchi, but I think that other brands have the same length);
3) CIP rules tell us that the max. case length is 23.27 (my reloading manual tells to trim cases at 23.2...);
4) the reloader in his reloading manual read that the bullets must be seated at 23.50 mm (the Fiocchi's 100 gr. HBWC that I use, Fiocchi's manual and another one);
5) the final result for me, that have followed all the instructions, is that I have a cartridge with a little bit of lead out of the roll crimp.
6) I must think that Fiocchi or any other brand tells a thing but makes another one, or reloading manuals don't tell the truth?
What do you think about?
1) we all know that factory cartridges have the bullets seated flush with a medium-heavy roll crimp;
2) we know also (thanks to julioalperi...) that the average cartridge length is 23.15 mm (for Fiocchi, but I think that other brands have the same length);
3) CIP rules tell us that the max. case length is 23.27 (my reloading manual tells to trim cases at 23.2...);
4) the reloader in his reloading manual read that the bullets must be seated at 23.50 mm (the Fiocchi's 100 gr. HBWC that I use, Fiocchi's manual and another one);
5) the final result for me, that have followed all the instructions, is that I have a cartridge with a little bit of lead out of the roll crimp.
6) I must think that Fiocchi or any other brand tells a thing but makes another one, or reloading manuals don't tell the truth?
What do you think about?
Last edited by buonvento on Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
Further to David Moore's earlier post, my experience has been that the Walthers will accommodate a smidgen of lead projecting from the case, and even seem to prefer this, giving tighter groups at 25M. Others (e.g. Pardini) need to be seated flush or slightly below the case mouth to avoid feed malfunctions.
I suspect this is more related to the magazines' ability to cope, or not, with Overall length.
WRT accuracy, the chamber/seating length seems to be important - this dimension = Overall length - rim thickness.
I suspect this is more related to the magazines' ability to cope, or not, with Overall length.
WRT accuracy, the chamber/seating length seems to be important - this dimension = Overall length - rim thickness.
I have illustrated my problem with overall cartridge length.
As you may see - cartridge is already in chamber tunnel with its nose, but it pressed by big force of slide's springs to the top part of the chamber.
Sometimes it is enough to move slide 2-3 mm back and let the cartridge to come unstuck.
As we all supposed - O.C.L. is the reason.
I will try to prepare test batch removing everything beyond case's edge (using file) and we'll see if it jams and if groups are OK.
As you may see - cartridge is already in chamber tunnel with its nose, but it pressed by big force of slide's springs to the top part of the chamber.
Sometimes it is enough to move slide 2-3 mm back and let the cartridge to come unstuck.
As we all supposed - O.C.L. is the reason.
I will try to prepare test batch removing everything beyond case's edge (using file) and we'll see if it jams and if groups are OK.
It would be simpler if you place a small block of wood at each end of the cartridge and seated the bullet flush in a vise. It's real quick and you won't wear out your file
Another thing to check is the width of the magazine lips at the front. If you have 2 mags , measure them to see if the distance between the lips are the same , If one is smaller , that one would likely hold the round in the magazine longer and more level as the bolt is pushing the round out of the mag into the chamber. If the lips don't have sufficient tension on the round it will pop out of the mag prematurely and the front of the round will jam in the top of the chamber . Try loading an empty case by releasing the bolt slowly and you should be able to see if the case pops out of the mag early. If so the fix is obvious
Another thing to check is the width of the magazine lips at the front. If you have 2 mags , measure them to see if the distance between the lips are the same , If one is smaller , that one would likely hold the round in the magazine longer and more level as the bolt is pushing the round out of the mag into the chamber. If the lips don't have sufficient tension on the round it will pop out of the mag prematurely and the front of the round will jam in the top of the chamber . Try loading an empty case by releasing the bolt slowly and you should be able to see if the case pops out of the mag early. If so the fix is obvious