Stuck in a rut

[Guest]

OK, I didn't notice until I looked up my match history that I've been shooting Air Pistol for 7 years. For the past 5 years I've shooting the same scores. I'll shoot 15,000 to 20,000 rounds a year trying the things you all talk about in this forum. What do you guys do to get out of a rut?

[Richard H]

OK, I didn't notice until I looked up my match history that I've been shooting Air Pistol for 7 years. For the past 5 years I've shooting the same scores. I'll shoot 15,000 to 20,000 rounds a year trying the things you all talk about in this forum. What do you guys do to get out of a rut?

Well shooting more the same way won't change things. If you want different scores you got to do something different.

[Guest]

well, are you shooting 500's or 580's??

If your shooting 580's-I wish I had your problem.

If your shooting 500's-I would try some new methods or coaching.

[POPeye as guest]

Maybe upgrade or pimp your match pistols.

What are you using as your "tools of the trade"?

[Guest]

To try something different is why I wrote. My methord of the shot is sub 6 hold (some white, tried deep 6 and came back some) keeping sights alined and letting the shot break on it own (don't try to control triger). At home I shoot 550, mid to upper 30s in a match. My equipment is a Morini CM162EI with Meisterkugeln. For those of you wondering about the Baikal IZH-46M, I had 2, Shot the same scores, but a bad case of tendentious set in. Around here a coach is out, hell when I shoot my free pistol at my club people gather around and ask "what is that". In all, I was trying to see what you guys do when your stuck. What kind of drills, what you pay attention to. Follow thru is a big one for me.

Thanks

[Guest]

I am, by no means a coach, but I would start with analyzing your shot dispersement. Are your strings decreasing from beginning to end, or increasing from beginning to end? Or are you seeing acceptable average strings, with obvious breakdowns? What percentage of 9s, 8s, 7s, etc are you shooting? Are you shooting a lot of 10s, and a fair amount of wild shots, or are you shooting a roughly equal number of 8s, 9s, and 10s throughout the match or practice? Generally speaking, the former is usually a trigger control/concentration (including time management) breakdown and the latter is a hold/position deficiency. There are specific drills, exercises, and approaches to building up shortcomings in each area.

A possible approach might be to slow down practice sessions, and carefully and deliberately analyze each element of the shot process, before, during, and after the pellet leaves the barrel. If it means that you only fire 20 of the most careful shots you can muster, as opposed to 60 shots that you can release in the same amount of time, then so be it. It is better to habitualize a fewer number of productive and correct shot cycles at a slower pace, than to habitualize a higher volume of mediocre and unproductive shot cycles.

Another approach might be to radically change the rhythm of your shot cycle. Try picking up the pace and more aggressively building pressure on the trigger. Or, consciously adding time to the after hold.

Of course, you could take a break, and stop firing live rounds, and working on your hold, trigger control, and shot rhythm with copious amounts of dry firing and mental rehearsal training.

just a few thoughts,

toznerd

[lastman]

I find that when I'm in a rut it is best to get away from things for a little while.

Stop shooting for a month, take some time to smell the roses so to speak.

When you come back measure where you are at. Group size, how well you hold, how well you press etc.

Define a program that centers around dry firing and dry rehearsal so you can really see what is happening. Do lots of holding work and also throw in plenty of fitness work.

I think your stuck in the rut because you have been doing the same thing for such a long time and it clearly isn't working.

[Guest]

in addition to lastman's excellent advice I would think you need to go to a 6 o'clock hold. 550's is showing you that you have a good hold and can break the trigger well. BUT, with a sub six hold there can be too much variation to consitently shoot 10's.
This comes from my experience after I was told by a top coach that said he knows of no world class AP shooters that use a sub six hold. I was right at the same point as you when I shifted and shot much tighter groups the very next match. I also had many more deep 10's. It does take some training to make the shift but if you shoot 550 you are ready.

[Richard H]

i
This comes from my experience after I was told by a top coach that said he knows of no world class AP shooters that use a sub six hold. I was right at the same point as you when I shifted and shot much tighter groups the very next match. I also had many more deep 10's. It does take some training to make the shift but if you shoot 550 you are ready.

Which top coach made this statement?

I guess he never heard of Yifu Wang, Mikhail Neustrev to name but two that use a sub-six hold.

[melchloboo]

Are you calling your shots, and are they on call? If your shots are on call then the mistakes will be relatively easy to diagnose, and easy to improve. If your shots are not on call, you're shooting well but blindly, and I don't see how you can possibly improve.

Also, by your estimate you're taking 50 shots a day...which means in reality some days you're doing much more. No wonder you got tendinitis, that's way too much. You need to let your body and mind relax. Probably also means you're shooting on days you're not up for it. If you're not shooting well on a given day, then stop. When shooting well, shoot more. If you must shoot every day, then get yourself an air rifle and leave the pistol alone some days.

Read (or re-read) "with winning in mind" by Basham.

[David Levene]

I'm afraid that, although trying to be helpful in the TT tradition, everybody is just guessing.

You really need to find some way to get a session with a good coach. I understand that can be a problem but it's the only sure way of getting relevant help and advice.

You cannot expect sensible help when all others know is what you are telling them. You need someone who knows what they are doing to actually see what you are doing for themself.

Someone here might come up with a suggestion which helps in the short term, but beware of the novelty factor. Any change can make you concentrate more, but it might not last.

[RobStubbs]

I'm afraid that, although trying to be helpful in the TT tradition, everybody is just guessing.

You really need to find some way to get a session with a good coach. I understand that can be a problem but it's the only sure way of getting relevant help and advice.

You cannot expect sensible help when all others know is what you are telling them. You need someone who knows what they are doing to actually see what you are doing for themself.

Someone here might come up with a suggestion which helps in the short term, but beware of the novelty factor. Any change can make you concentrate more, but it might not last.

I agree with David, without a coach you'll struggle an awful lot more. Make the effort and attend something like the USAMU coaching sessions - people here have discussed those before. Or contact your governing body to see if they point you in the direction of a coach - there's a lot out there, it's finding one that can be hard.

Rob.

[Guest]

To answer toznerd, when shooting I use a 4 bull target, the upper left will have as many or more 8s than 10s. The upper right will have the center shot out with maybe an 8 or two. The same goes for the bottom. Most of the time I can call the shots, but every once in a while there is the "where did that come from". High shots are from what I call the bounce, when I'm coming down on the target and it bounces a little before it settles but it must have looked good because the shot breaks. I know it is high because of the feel not what I saw. Left, right, low, I held to long. Sounds like I'm answering my own questions.

To melchoboo, I have a copy of with winning in mind, I think I might read it again. I feel I'm on the edge, just need to get rid of those couple of 8s but I guess everybody says that.

What kind of holding drills do you guys do, or dry fire drills. How do you approach a shot (your shot sequence)? How do you get use to shooting good?

One last thing, thanks for taking the time to write, I do appreciate it.

[joker]

OK, I didn't notice until I looked up my match history that I've been shooting Air Pistol for 7 years. For the past 5 years I've shooting the same scores. I'll shoot 15,000 to 20,000 rounds a year trying the things you all talk about in this forum. What do you guys do to get out of a rut?

5 year rut - try dynamite.

[paulo]

in addition to lastman's excellent advice I would think you need to go to a 6 o'clock hold. 550's is showing you that you have a good hold and can break the trigger well. BUT, with a sub six hold there can be too much variation to consitently shoot 10's.
This comes from my experience after I was told by a top coach that said he knows of no world class AP shooters that use a sub six hold. I was right at the same point as you when I shifted and shot much tighter groups the very next match. I also had many more deep 10's. It does take some training to make the shift but if you shoot 550 you are ready.

Is center of mass an option for the top scores?

[Freepistol]

.... . . . . . How do you get use to shooting good?. . . . .

That't the goal, the reward, for all the hard work. Shooting well is what one strives to do. Why would you expect anything else?

[Guest]

in addition to lastman's excellent advice I would think you need to go to a 6 o'clock hold. 550's is showing you that you have a good hold and can break the trigger well. BUT, with a sub six hold there can be too much variation to consitently shoot 10's.
This comes from my experience after I was told by a top coach that said he knows of no world class AP shooters that use a sub six hold. I was right at the same point as you when I shifted and shot much tighter groups the very next match. I also had many more deep 10's. It does take some training to make the shift but if you shoot 550 you are ready.

Is center of mass an option for the top scores?

i've been told yes that CM or 6 o'clock are more consistantly smaller group wise. A newer shooter benefits from a sub 6 because of less perceived movement and easier front sight focus. A more advanced shooter needs to hold against something which enables tighter groups, the line of white can be hard to get consistent.
There are always freaks of nature that can shoot any which method even over the shoulder with a mirror, but i've seen improvement as I got better going from sub 6 to 6o'clock.

[Guest]

Maybe this article

http://www.pilkguns.com/jparticles/OTFL ... nstuck.pdf

[lastman]

I'm curious about the 4 bull target.

Is that to say that you have 4 10 rings on each card? If it were me I would look at that as a potential problem... Reason being is that you can't learn to a natural aiming area if your changing it all of the time.

With regard to holding exercises, the 1 I find the most helpful is to dry fire an intense shot (that being you are totally committed to firing the best shot you can) once the shot breaks you continue to hold and sight for another 60 seconds. It takes a little while to build up to 60 seconds though.

Just one thing to David is that a lot of people don't have access to a coach for a significant period of time. I believe it's one of the reasons this forum was set up. Everyone gives their opinion based on their experience and what they have learnt rather than guessing.

[Guest]

lastman

The local matches I compete in use these targets and yes there are 4 seperate targets on one sheet. We shoot 3 shots per bull. At first I tried to pivot side to side, now I move both feet. More dry fire might be the way, I'm at the point where if I start shooting good I have to make up for it on the next target. In other words, it goes to my head, I guess?

Thanks for your comment