Muzzle velocity and tearing targets

[Dehouser]

I'm having difficulties with targets tearing during practice. I'm using an FAS 604 and even with 7 grain pellets and a cardboard backstop the holes are often ragged. The targets I'm using were given to me; the logo is 'Shooting Federation of Canada'. I tried an FWB 80 recently and it left nice neat holes, so it obviously shoot faster than the FAS. I recently replaced all the seals in the gun so I assume it must be shooting at or near spec, whatever that may be. Is there an approximate velocity that leaves a relatively neat hole? I ordered some Edelman targets recently, thinking they may make a difference. Any other suggestions appreciated.

[Spencer]

I'm having difficulties with targets tearing during practice. I'm using an FAS 604 and even with 7 grain pellets and a cardboard backstop the holes are often ragged. The targets I'm using were given to me; the logo is 'Shooting Federation of Canada'. I tried an FWB 80 recently and it left nice neat holes, so it obviously shoot faster than the FAS. I recently replaced all the seals in the gun so I assume it must be shooting at or near spec, whatever that may be. Is there an approximate velocity that leaves a relatively neat hole? I ordered some Edelman targets recently, thinking they may make a difference. Any other suggestions appreciated.

If your velocity is 380fps (or more) and the targets are tearing with wadcutter pellets, it's the targets

[RobinC]

Delhauser
I suspect that it's a bit of both, target quality, and velocity. I have a FAS 604 which I bought earlier this year (new, old stock) mine was so slow that I thought the seals had died of old age so returned it and they were all replaced, it was much the same! There is nothing wrong with it, they are just low velocity, I have not checked mine on a chrono as it shoots superb tight groups and the slightly ragged holes are no issue. They are a very accurate pistol, the holes may be ragged but they are consistant and in the right place. A great pistol, they are also very sensitive to pellets, mine shoots fastest(sound) and tightest (group tested) on the cheapest ones (sold in England as "Bisley Practice" but I think they are H&N). I now use a Steyr LP2 Compact and the difference in velocity is quite startling.
Best regards
Robin

[RobinC]

Just had a second thought. you say you are using a cardboard backstop? If you have your target pinned to the cardboard, the low velocity FAS is struggling to get through both the target and the cardboard. If that's the case try using a frame holder that just suports the target with the backstop a clear gap behind it.
Best regards
Robin

[OzzieM]

Air humidity also affects how clean a hole your pellets cut. Humid air demands higher muzzle velocity.

Living in dry air prairie country I get clean holes with inexpensive practise targets from Cibles Canada Targets (Stock # 103T).

I also think a minimum muzzle velocity of 420 ft/s is needed to achieve clean holes, no matter how favourable weather conditions are.

OzzieM

[LeLongCarabine]

try different pellets rws rn10's pistol pellets see if they still give raggy holes ( i doubt they will)i found that the cheap ones i used (£5.00) a tin looked excellent quality but the holes were very raggy edged and my pistol power is quite high
Will

[Tony C.]

The paper quality of those Shooting Federation of Canada are not very good , its OK for inexpensive pratice but not much else.

As other poster pointed out, Cibles target are quite good, while not as good as Edleman, but cost a lot less. If you ordered Eldeman targets you'll find theres a big differences, your pellet should cut a clean hole in them, more importantly, you can put more shots into them.

Generally SSP airguns velocity are less than PCP or Co2 guns, your FAS 604 should have a muzzle velocity of at least 400 f/s, which shouln't have any trouble cutting a clean hole in a good quality targets like Eldeman.

[Dehouser]

Thanks much for all the tips. I tried mounting a target this morning without a cardboard backstop and didn't see an appreciable difference when shooting through it. As for pellets, I was using JSB Match Diablo 7.3s and I tried the RWS10 lights; neither one leaves a clean hole. I recently switched to RWS Hobbys as an economic practice pellet and they are no better or worse than the above, in terms of 'raggedness'. The targets I currently have are likely quite old as well, so I'm interested to try the Edelmans, once they arrive. I'm going to chronograph the 604 over Christmas to find out where it is at. I'd be surprised if it shoots higher than about 360-370 fps. I've done penetration comparisons between it and my HW40 (which has been chronographed at around 370) and they appear approximately equal. Anyway, thanks again.

[luftskytter-]

I agree: about 420 fps is a minimum if you want nice clean holes, even in a decent target. I get tears with typical slow guns like the Gamo Compact.
My Izzy IZH46M is just around minimum for good holepunching (450 fps).
My faster guns have no problems with "real" targets (photocopies etc. tear less if you back them with a used "real target").

I guess a cardboard backing might actually reduce tearing if your gun is too slow,

[RobinC]

Delhauser
I use my FAS 604 for practice at home because it is a lot quieter than my Steyr, shot this morning on edelmann targets and the holes are a little ragged. My FAS is in perfect condition and I think from memory that mine and another one in my club is doing around 370 fps, thats all you will get from them. I do not believe you have a problem, if it does'nt group then you may have a problem, but going on the comments from others on velocity I think the way they cut holes is as good as it gets, but why care? Are you bothered about ragged 10.9's? If they are not 10's, it's usualy because it was'nt pointed at the 10! They will shoot to a very high level if you hold it still, get a good sight picture, and let off the trigger properly. Being a short pistol it will punish sight picture errors, and poor triger release which is why I use mine for practice. Don't worry about the ragged holes if its accurate.
Best regards
Robin

[RobStubbs]

Delhauser
<snip>
Don't worry about the ragged holes if its accurate.
Best regards
Robin

Unfortunately if the holes are ragged there's more chance that accuracy will also be 'ragged'. Guns are typically set at the optimum velocity for best accuracy and precision. If in doubt then test the gun and see - it may well be ok at the velocities you're experiencing. Don't also forget though that if it's continually dropping down it shows something is faulty and it will just get worse - so you're probably delaying the inevitable.

Rob.

[Guest]

Don't worry about the ragged holes if its accurate.
Robin

It is accurate, much more than I. I'm not concerned with being able to tell the difference in degree of various '10s', as I do not shoot at that level. When I say that I am 'tearing targets', I mean that I could shoot a 7 and the paper may tear into the 9 ring. Trying to score a practise target with more than 5 shots on it is basically futile at present. It looks as though better targets will help to clear this up.
Thanks.

[Dehouser]

Don't worry about the ragged holes if its accurate.
Robin

It is accurate, much more than I. I'm not concerned with being able to tell the difference in degree of various '10s', as I do not shoot at that level. When I say that I am 'tearing targets', I mean that I could shoot a 7 and the paper may tear into the 9 ring. Trying to score a practise target with more than 5 shots on it is basically futile at present. It looks as though better targets will help to clear this up.
Thanks.

Apologies, the above was written by me but I had forgotten to log in.