hammerli 160 special

[darrell]

could anyone tell me somthing about this gun .I khow that parts are the same as the new fp 60 and i belive that the frame is also in steal on the 160 not alu i think i have also seen some plastic on the front sight i belive,and the trigger is this so ?Thanks in advance .

[6string]

The 160 Special is a variation on the 160. Same steel frame, trigger group, barrel, etc.... It differs most obviously by eliminating the carbon fiber forend with an adjustable dual rail weight system that clamps to the barrel with an alloy block. The trigger guard is also changed from carbon fiber to alloy. Also, the 160 special was offered with an optional muzzle brake, which I think was also alloy (I've never used one.) All the alloy parts were anodized in a color matched scheme. I've only seen blue, but there could be others. Overall, it's a great pistol and it's pretty snazzy looking, too.

Are you looking at getting one?
Best regards,
Jim

[darrell]

Thankyou 6string that information is helpful i do ineed have a16 special in view ,it is just i donot like plastic in my guns? and am afraid of bits braking i know that internal parts are the same as the fp60 so thats ok and the rest of the gun is in steal not alu so that is also ok but the front sights seam to be held with plastic ,is this a problem? thanks again ,
Darrell

[6string]

Hi Darrell,
I don't think the plastic parts are critical parts. The trigger shoe is plastic with a threaded brass insert. The set trigger lever is also plastic. I was initially concerned about that, but it is so much better designed than the earlier 150 that the effort to use it is almost nothing. The front sight housing is plastic, but that could easily be changed to any number of small bore rifle housings. Having said that, I haven't had any problems with my 160.
I liked the earlier 150/152 just fine, but everything on the 160 is just so much better designed. The chamber is refined so you don't have to jam a cartridge into the chamber, or try to pry it out if the need arises. The cocking effort upon opening the breech is much smoother. The ergonomics seem just a bit more refined, and the trigger is just superb.
Best regards,
Jim

[darrell]

Thanks Jim that was very usful info ,i shot the pistol this afternoon and it feels good it needs some ajusting but otherwise ok i think i will take the plunge and buy it .I looked at the plastic and had not even knoticed the ejector or the trigger set was plastic i thought it was alu,i hope they dont brake thanks again. Darrell

[Guest]

could anyone tell me somthing about this gun .I khow that parts are the same as the new fp 60 and i belive that the frame is also in steal on the 160 not alu i think i have also seen some plastic on the front sight i belive,and the trigger is this so ?Thanks in advance .

Only the breech and second stage trigger are the same. The rest is specific.

The frame is partly steel, partly alu and is specific to the 160 special (i.e. not the same that on the regular 160 and 162, the way the barrel is mounted on the frame is also different).

Parts might be difficult to find since very few 160 special were produced (much less than the regular 160 and 162) and also since the FP60 seems not to be produced anymore. This can become a major problem since the (expensive) firing pin can easily be broken.

The original grip (made by Nill) is quite bad and should be replaced by a good one.

You should may be consider a more modern FP ?

[6string]

Hmm, perhaps there is more than one version of the 160 special? My observation had been that it is possible to convert a 160 to a 160 special by removing/replacing the plastic trigger guard and forend with the aluminum trigger guard and barrel mounted weight assembly, and maybe adding the compensator if that's your taste.
Since the frame (less the sideplate) is one piece, how can it be partly steel and partly aluminum? (PS: the sideplate is also steel on every 160 special I've seen.)
I have never seen any difference in the way the barrel is fitted to the 160, 162, or 160 special. Are you sure we're talking about the same thing?
As for the Nill grip, that is a matter of opinion (and fitting?). I find it to be a good fit for me. Others may, too. After all, many people find the original Toz grip quite useable with the right work.

[Guest]

Hmm, perhaps there is more than one version of the 160 special? My observation had been that it is possible to convert a 160 to a 160 special by removing/replacing the plastic trigger guard and forend with the aluminum trigger guard and barrel mounted weight assembly, and maybe adding the compensator if that's your taste.
Since the frame (less the sideplate) is one piece, how can it be partly steel and partly aluminum? (PS: the sideplate is also steel on every 160 special I've seen.)
I have never seen any difference in the way the barrel is fitted to the 160, 162, or 160 special. Are you sure we're talking about the same thing?
As for the Nill grip, that is a matter of opinion (and fitting?). I find it to be a good fit for me. Others may, too. After all, many people find the original Toz grip quite useable with the right work.

Yes, the 160 special frame is different: on the 160/162, the top part were the barrel is mounted has 45 degre cut corners while the 160 special has sharp corners and two screws on the top holding the barrel that doesn't exist on the 160/162.

The 160/162 frame has also an extension under the barrel to attach the black plastic weigth mounting part (that also contains the batteries and part of the electronics for the trigger on the 162) that doesn't exist on the 160 special frame.

Indeed, some 160 were converted into something that look like a 160 special but the result is different from an original 160 special.

Modified 160:


Original 160 Special

[dam8]

Where can you find that weight system? I wonder if it would fit the 150?

[Guest]

Where can you find that weight system? I wonder if it would fit the 150?

I am afraid nowhere !

Remember, the 160 special is a "real" Hammerli pistol = made before Hammerli bankrupt and taken over by Walther. Few pieces were made and these 160 special specific parts are almost impossible to find as spare parts.

I have a list of spare parts for the 160/162 but I never saw one for the 160 special with the part numbers of the 160 special specific parts.

Try to order from Walther using a picture of it ! But Walther is famous for his terrible after sale support even FP60 spare parts are difficult to get.

[6string]

Well, I guess I stand corrected!
I hadn't seen the frames with the allen set screws. Does the barrel thread into the frame or is it just a press fit with the set screws holding it in place (or perhaps both)?

The 160 specials I've seen includes one directly from Hammerli sold as such. It had the standard 160 frame. I guess Hammerli used the parts on hand as supply dictated. They did the same thing throughout the 100 series, using parts from previous models, often leading to confusion as to what was what.

Thank you for taking the trouble to post this information.

I had seen the weight system for sale separately. Neal Johnson Guns had at least one or two for $112. I didn't bother buying one because it looked pretty simple to fabricate one myself. So far, I haven't needed one as I like a light and lively free pistol. However, I'm in the minority as I also like the very early Hammerli free pistols with the octagonal barrels. Since I also like the Nill grip, my tastes might be in a bit off.

[Guest]

Well, I guess I stand corrected!
I hadn't seen the frames with the allen set screws. Does the barrel thread into the frame or is it just a press fit with the set screws holding it in place (or perhaps both)?

The 160 specials I've seen includes one directly from Hammerli sold as such. It had the standard 160 frame. I guess Hammerli used the parts on hand as supply dictated. They did the same thing throughout the 100 series, using parts from previous models, often leading to confusion as to what was what.

I also heard of factory made 160 special using the 160 frame. I have been said that many people didn't like the look of the 160 and that Hammerli made the 160 special to give another look to the pistol and then made 160 specials using remaining 160 parts.

There are two types of barrels: black and silver. I think that the silver barrel doesn't exists on 160 specials with the 160 special frame ?

I have no idea about the way the barrel is mounted into the 160 special frame (threaded like the 160 or not) since I never dismounted it and never saw any exploded view of the 160 special, no idea why these two screws were added.

Another modified 160:


Nestruev uses another kind of modified 160 with the 160 special compensator and trigger guard.

[darrell]

Dear guest thanks alot for this reply ,this leaves me with a bit of dought on the 160 i have got, i have a silver barrel and can not remember if i have the screws on the top block? I will go and look and write back later you saied that the 160 and the 160 special were not the same ? and the parts were different,which was better and why you also say that the 160s has not the same parts as the 60fp though i imagine i could have made most of the parts that could brake even thougt i have heard that these guns are quite strong,people still stand by toz 35s even though they are no longer made!!

[Guest]

The situation of the TOZ and the 160 special are very different: the TOZ was produced in big quantities (for a FP) while the 160 special was made in much smaller numbers. There are a lot of information available about the TOZ, while I never saw any documentation (leaflet, user manual, exploded view, spare part list...) about the 160 special, I only saw documentation about the 160/162. I do not know why the frame was modified for the 160 special and why these two top screws were added. The only reason I imagine is a different barrel and barrel mounting, but why ?

FP are simple but also delicate guns, they require care and must be used with care, bad manipulation can cause problems.

Is the 160 special you bought new or used ?

Yes, several parts are the same on the FP60 and 160 but the problem is the unclear situation of the FP60: is it still in production or not ? After sale service of Walther is known to be bad.

Now this situation is not only valid for the 160, it is also valid for the other Hammerli FP like the 150 and 10x family that are slowily becoming collector pistols instead of shooting pistols. The only exception is the FP10 that was made by SAM.

[darrell]

Thankyou for your reply m. guest i have borght the 160 s new so i imagine if used with care should last some time !!
As for the block that holds the barrle mine is as your photo of the 160 special though mine as NOT got the 2 screws strange there seem to be different 160 specials around you mentioned that the 160 and 160 special were different, in which way?As for parts walther must have somthing at least a firing pin!! and i had herd that the sam 10fp was not that good and had never been that sucsesful.

[jipe]

I own a 160 special. It is a good FP but I also faced problems getting spare parts for it. The one I could buy were also pretty expensive !

[darrell]

How long have you had the gun? Was it new ? How many rounds has it shot and have you had any problems if so what thanks in advance.
Darrell

[jipe]

I do not know exactly the number of rounds but to shoot FP well you need to train a lot.

The problems I had are the usual ones that happens with most match pistols when they are really used: replacement of firing pin, firing pin spring and other small parts related to it (the Hammerli system uses a sear, a secondary sear both with a very small spring and a hammer that strikes the sear, not the firing pin directly).

Bad manipulation, i.e. firing when the breech is (partly) open gives a high risk of damaging/breaking the firing pin that cost about 60 Euro if you can find one. The last one I found came from... the US !

[darrell]

Jipe the parts that you had to change as i understand were firing pin and springs for the pin the parts you bourght from the us were they for a160 a160 special or for a 60fp ???

[jipe]

Jipe the parts that you had to change as i understand were firing pin and springs for the pin the parts you bourght from the us were they for a160 a160 special or for a 60fp ???

I had also to change the small spring and the mounting pin of the sear (the sear and a special shaped screw must be removed to be able to remove/replace the firing pin out of the breech).

These are parts from the breech assembly that are the same on the three models and carry the same part number.

However, even if they are supposed to be the same and carry the same part number, the two firing pins I bought recently look different: one has a black surface finish with two machined rings in silver, the other one is completely silver. May be the material is not the same ?

You should check the firing pin when you buy a used 160 since it is expensive and can be broken by accidental bad manipulation. It is not the pin itself that breaks but well the small arm on the left side of the firing pin that is used by the cocking lever to arm the firing pin.