Can a TOZ 36 revolver shoot .32 S&W?

FredB · Post by **FredB** » Sat May 16, 2009 4:05 pm

I would greatly appreciate some help with this question: can a TOZ 36 revolver shoot .32 S&W in its original condition (without being modified to do so)? I know that it was designed for the 7.62 Nagant Long cartridge, which basically can't be found (or would be very expensive if found). However I have heard that it can be used with the .32 S&W. Could anyone please explain more about that? Specifically which .32 S&W cartridge? When using the .32 is the gun safe? accurate? I've heard that the very similar TOZ 49, which takes the 7.62 Nagant Short cartridge, has to be gunsmith modified to shoot .32 S&W. Does the TOZ 36 not require gunsmith mods to shoot .32?

Any information will be appreciated.

Thanks,
FredB

j-team · Post by **j-team** » Sun May 17, 2009 1:32 am

I once had a Toz 49 that I modified to fire .32 S&W long, however, before I made the conversion, I fired a hundred or so .32S&WLongs in the 7.62 Nagant chambers just to see what happened. They fired OK and were plenty accurate but the cases were badly bulged afterwards.

I guess that the toz 36 would be much the same but the extra length of chamber might not be helpful to accuracy.

You can get brass and dies for the Toz 36 in Australia. Ask Potter Firearms, they might be able to help.

muffo as guest · Post by **muffo as guest** » Sun May 17, 2009 3:32 am

I can find out for you my father shot a toz 36 in S&W long for most if not all his shooting career and he shot 290s and as high as a 299 dueling so it cant have been to bad il find out if he modified it.

jmnich · Post by **jmnich** » Sun May 17, 2009 4:55 am

i had my toz converted to s&w by alex taranskey in adelaide south australia it involves sleeving the cylinder and some machining if the barrel cen send some pictures if you want

Muffo as guest · Post by **Muffo as guest** » Mon May 18, 2009 12:52 am

As far as i know only the toz 49 can be re sleved. my father had a new cylindar made for S&W long. It wont work on the original cylindar

JamesHu · Post by **JamesHu** » Wed May 20, 2009 5:03 am

Pretty sure answer is no, the Toz36 can't be used with 0.32 SWL as is.

Two reasons:

The Toz relies on the case to index the position of the cylinder relative to the barrel (the S+W style latch which aligns with the cylinder flutes is for very coarse control only).
If you use cases which don't enter the barrel you will have no alignment control.

The second is using such a short case in such a long chamber would mean the bullet would be flying totally free in the cyinder before it hit the forcing cone.
The chamber diameter would be the bullet dia plus two case thicknesses -> You'd be lucky to have the bullet hit the forcing cone neatly even if it were aligned, which it wouldn't be, see above. You'd have no gas seal either.

The good news is:

Fiocchi still make ammo (I think).
Cases and dies can still be obtained, from Bertram Brass in Aus, and I think Midway or Starline make it too.
Apparently 30 Carbine is close enough that cases and dies can be made to work, I heard that here and 'on the web'. Obviously don't use 30 carbine loads, remember the bullet is suppose to be seated deep in the case and don't use the mega-crimp you see on some military surplus 7.62x38 ammo.

If you're desperate to use 32SWL the cylinder could be cut down and sleeved, the barrel moved back so the case enters the throat.

Otherwise more info here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62_x_38_R

RobinC · Post by **RobinC** » Tue May 26, 2009 6:04 am

I had a toz 36 years ago (80's) before UK politics lost us the right to have hand guns for sport, and the amunition was always dodgy to aquire even then. Along with another shooter we both had 32 S&W chambers made which shot perfectly, the only problem I can remember was a tendency for the cases to stick so I always had a rod handy on the firing point.
Best regards
Robin

FredB · Post by **FredB** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:32 pm

Thanks everyone for your informative comments. From them I gather that the TOZ 36 would need a new cylinder in order to shoot .32 S&W Longs. However, I am still confused about the different original cartridges. It seems like there must be THREE different 7.62 Nagant cartridges: the original 7.62 Nagant for the 1895 (date?) Nagant revolver whose cylinder moved forward into lockup, the 7.62 Nagant Short for the TOZ 49, and the 7.62 Nagant Long for the TOZ 36? Is this correct? Do the cylinders of the TOZ 49 and 36 move forward at lockup like the old Nagant revolver's cylinder does? Are the 7.62 Nagant Short and Long cartridge bottle neck cases, like the old 7.62 Nagant? At this point, I'm mostly just curious.

Thanks,
FredB

JamesHu · Post by **JamesHu** » Tue May 26, 2009 11:08 pm

To use 0.32SWL you would need a new cylinder, AND to move the barrel back so the case enters it when the cylinder moves forward.
This provides lock-up and is essential IMO.

Both Toz 49 (which I have) and Toz 36 move the cylinder forward on cocking.

As for cartidges, 7.62x26 (Toz 49) and 7.62x38 (Toz 36) are straightforward single taper cartridges.
Not so sure about the military cartridge, I think sometimes they have an extreme crimp which makes them look as if they are bottlenecked.

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