Why?

superstring · Post by **superstring** » Sat May 09, 2009 7:05 pm

Pabs, a little OT, but where did you source the barrel for that gun? It looks like a soda straw!! And a bent one at that!

BTW you have my vote for the LP50. I have an 8 year old LP5 which I've had a lot of fun (and no trouble) with. Sorry, can't help you with the electronic trigger question though.

FredB · Post by **FredB** » Sat May 09, 2009 8:45 pm

Pabs wrote:I indicated earlier I am purchasing an air pistol in the coming weeks. Where I live there is little opportunity to "road test" pistols. I have had a preference for an LP50 - it would enable me to shoot other matches as well as air. I have read Steyr is bringing out an electronic trigger in a few months. Can anyone list or point me to a list of pros and cons of an electronic trigger over a manual one especially with respect to reliability and durability.

I can't speak to the reliability/durability of the upcoming Steyr electronic trigger, mainly because it's....upcoming. However, I can say that, as much as I like my Steyr LP5, and as reliable/durable as it has been, the trigger does leave a lot to be desired. If the Steyr electronic trigger is good, it will be a huge improvement in the LP50 (unlike in the LP10, where the improvement will be marginal, since it already has a good mechanical trigger). Just another factor to consider.

FredB

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Sun May 10, 2009 1:58 am

Pabs wrote:I indicated earlier I am purchasing an air pistol in the coming weeks. Where I live there is little opportunity to "road test" pistols. I have had a preference for an LP50 - it would enable me to shoot other matches as well as air. I have read Steyr is bringing out an electronic trigger in a few months. Can anyone list or point me to a list of pros and cons of an electronic trigger over a manual one especially with respect to reliability and durability.

Particularly in regard to the LP50, I suspect that the electronics will give it the trigger that Steyr could never manage with the mechanical version.

The LP50 mechanical is not a bad trigger, but it's nowhere near as good as the top class single shot air pistols (mechanical or electronic). Electronics will hopefully rectify that situation.

Pabs · Post by **Pabs** » Tue May 12, 2009 9:34 pm

Tuesday - went out to the range to check MUG (my ugly gun – thanks again Bill) and SCATT over 10 metres. A total disaster. Scores were abysmal - so much so I didn't even attempt to shoot a match. There were so many variables different from at home - lighting, target height (my target at home is at least 25 cm lower than those at the range - how I missed that I'll never know), people coming and going, shooting in the next range (forgot the earmuffs) - and I had given no thought to simple things like how to afix the target sensor to the backwall. Literally had to tie it to a target frame with string. LOTS OF EXCUSES for bad performance I know, but my head wasn't there. I came home, set up the gear and shot a match - 575. Reshot 2 hours later and shot 586.

Yesterday's fiasco missed the point. I am going back out this evening (Wednesday) with a plan. Test MUG over 6 metres to rule environmental factors in or out. The original question was whether redistributing weight forward gave me the dramatically improved scores. If I can shoot a reasonable score over 6 metres at the range then the improvement is not due to the SCATT sensors being fooled by my home environment. If I flunk out over 6 metres it would appear I have just had a delusional experience (no matter how pleasant) at the home “range” and should reevaluate my shooting future - maybe concentrate more on lawn bowls. If the 6 metres attempt passes muster I will shoot 10 metres. Update tomorrow for those interested.

Thanks to those who posted comments re the electronic Vs mechanical triggers - appreciated.

Pabs · Post by **Pabs** » Wed May 13, 2009 6:50 am

The honeymoon is well and truely over. What a disaster. 6m - 551 & 10m - 536. Did I shoot well at the range today - absolutely not. Do I have any excuses - absolutely. Are they worth hearing - absolutely not.

In a post to this topic Haleva asked about my L value (trace length). You know when you have shot a 10 (well, most of the time) - its a gut feeling. Well, even the best 10s today had L values double what they were/are at home. The only conclusion I can draw is Haleva was right my wonderful home scores of the past couple of weeks are due to an anomaly - SCATT receiving a shoddy infra-red signal and consistently intrepreting it as a good score. I exchanged a number of emails with Avi Haleva - a top bloke - he provided valuable information on how to interpret SCATT data and advised caution in that interpretation.

Those who have taken an interest in my preoccupation (ask my wife) with why my scores were too good to be true and to those who took the time to make a comment - thanks. To anyone who was holding out hope of a fast track to miracle scores - my condolences.

It would appear there is no quick and easy way to good scores - hard work, a positive attitude, talent (both natural and learned), good advice and determination still count as attributes to apply and/or acquire. Do I regret this experience - no. I may never shoot a real 580+ but (however delusional) what a feeling; the people who do shoot scores like that in real life are legends.

What now? I will continue to use MUG but I promise to HEAVILY discount any scores shot and I promise not to post another score on this forum unless it is shot at a range, with a real gun and is at least 600 ;)

Good shooting everyone.

Philadelphia · Post by **Philadelphia** » Wed May 13, 2009 7:38 am

Pabs wrote:The honeymoon is well and truely over. What a disaster. 6m - 551 & 10m - 536. Did I shoot well at the range today - absolutely not. Do I have any excuses - absolutely. Are they worth hearing - absolutely not.

In a post to this topic Haleva asked about my L value (trace length). You know when you have shot a 10 (well, most of the time) - its a gut feeling. Well, even the best 10s today had L values double what they were/are at home. The only conclusion I can draw is Haleva was right my wonderful home scores of the past couple of weeks are due to an anomaly - SCATT receiving a shoddy infra-red signal and consistently intrepreting it as a good score. I exchanged a number of emails with Avi Haleva - a top bloke - he provided valuable information on how to interpret SCATT data and advised caution in that interpretation.

Those who have taken an interest in my preoccupation (ask my wife) with why my scores were too good to be true and to those who took the time to make a comment - thanks. To anyone who was holding out hope of a fast track to miracle scores - my condolences.

It would appear there is no quick and easy way to good scores - hard work, a positive attitude, talent (both natural and learned), good advice and determination still count as attributes to apply and/or acquire. Do I regret this experience - no. I may never shoot a real 580+ but (however delusional) what a feeling; the people who do shoot scores like that in real life are legends.

What now? I will continue to use MUG but I promise to HEAVILY discount any scores shot and I promise not to post another score on this forum unless it is shot at a range, with a real gun and is at least 600 ;)

Good shooting everyone.

Don't get discouraged at all. You might have much better ability but simply need to adjust to the new environment. If you don't believe that, you will never adjust.

Some beginners can shoot very good scores because they know that is what they are supposed to do but don't yet know how hard that's supposed to be. When your mind starts to tell you that what you are doing is difficult, it will be. Focus on what it is you are supposed to do. That may be something you already have natural ability to do quite well -- who knows. If you allow your mind to convince you that you can't yet do it because it is such an accomplishment and very hard etc., you never will.

In short, keep at it. :)

Gwhite · Post by **Gwhite** » Wed May 13, 2009 6:38 pm

If the problem with the SCATT is reflections off the low ceiling, some sort of surface treatment or baffle system might help. I don't know enough about how it works to make any specific recommendations. I work in RF & microwaves, and regularly use special absorbing foam to kill unwanted reflections when testing antennas. Not sure what would work well for IR. Something as simple as corrugated cardboard with one facing removed might do it. You want the ridges going crosswise relative to the optical path. Painting it black might help as well.

Haleva · Post by **Haleva** » Thu May 14, 2009 1:51 am

Although I don't have a proof, I believe that the problem is caused due to the lighting conditions (and I guess low ceiling also contributes). After all SCATT is an optical system ...

It will be interesting to hear from forum members that are using SCATT about the room conditions (lighting, range, ceiling height etc.) and their experience with SCATT unexplained results.

Thinkqob · Post by **Thinkqob** » Fri May 15, 2009 12:04 am

You did great 580+ cool

John Hadjichristou · Post by **John Hadjichristou** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:56 am

I made the same mistake/discovery/reverlation as Pabs many months ago, after getting myself the Rika Hometrainer.
Using my Morini 162ei I noticed my hold was exceptional - holding the 10 ring for over 80% of my 6 - 8 second hold.
Starting off shooting around 570 - 577 for the first week, then, with more daily practice moved to 580 - 585. After just three weeks I was in the 590's - stringing off eight seperate 60 shot matches in under 30 minutes with final scores of 591,596,590,593,593,599 (damn I nearly shot a perfect score) 592,592.
Then a shooter friend of mine, who's been shooting for more than 15 years came to witness my bragging on how well (and easy) I was doing.
He watched with great intensity, raised eye brows and a wry smile.
By the way I was shooting on my 10m home range, with regulation lighting and my Morini was reguklation too - trigger, weight and all.
After I had 'easily' shot a 593 in just a fraction over 31 minutes, he asked that he take a look at the 'settings' I had inputted for the 10m air pistol target. Alas - lo and behold, the answer, the truth. I was shooting on a regulation target down my perfectly measured 10m range, BUT in the parameters/settings on my target in the Rika program I had inadvertently put 4.5m as the distance. (I had meant to put 4.5mm as the calibre)
A quick re-adjustment of the settings to change the 4.5m to 10.0m - and my hold shows me barely holding the 8 ring and scores back to how I compete with live fire on the range: 535 - 550.
In hind sight - common sense should have told me that 'something was amiss'
Nevertheless, the files I saved sure look World Class. :)

Pabs · Post by **Pabs** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:22 pm

Who'd a thunk it.

Thanks John you have come up with the solution.

I appears Scatt differs from Rika in that you can't set the range distance manually (to my knowledge anyway). Scatt has an option to adjust the optical sensor which, among other things, measures the distance between the optical sensor and the target sensor. For some reason my Scatt system, for extended occasions, has been reading my 6 metre range as being 10 metres. To check the theory I put a longer USB cable onto the gun took it out through the front door adjusted the sensor to 9 metres came back inside to 6 metres, fired a shot which scored equivalent to my recent "legendary" standard.

Thank goodness you posted the comment after I shot the 600 lunchtime yesterday - it would have felt like I was cheating if I had known ;)

Thanks mate, I have been chasing an answer to the "Why?" for some time now and the solution was so, so simple.

Excuse me whilst I climb down from this pedastal, shove it into a corner and rejoin the mere mortal queue - well towards the back.