Steyr LP 10 ELECTRONIC

cloudswimmer · Post by **cloudswimmer** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:33 am

So any word on upgrade of LP10 to LP10e yet?

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:44 pm

cloudswimmer wrote:So any word on upgrade of LP10 to LP10e yet?

I'm sure it's available - but you'll need the new trigger assembly, and new grip at the very least, so economically probably better to sell the old LP10 and buy the LP10e.

Rob.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:38 pm

admittedly, I have never tried an electronic trigger but the trigger on my LP10 is so darned light, I don't know how an electronic trigger would be ank kind of improvement for most of us. Isabel.

jipe · Post by **jipe** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:28 pm

cloudswimmer wrote:So any word on upgrade of LP10 to LP10e yet?

You mean upgrade of the lp10e to lp10 ! Not sure the reverse is an upgrade ?

cloudswimmer · Post by **cloudswimmer** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:06 pm

jipe wrote:
cloudswimmer wrote:So any word on upgrade of LP10 to LP10e yet?
You mean upgrade of the lp10e to lp10 ! Not sure the reverse is an upgrade ?

I thought I wrote LP10 to LP10e as the upgrade route.I hope I'm not developing slysdexia 80

cloudswimmer · Post by **cloudswimmer** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:12 pm

Anonymous wrote:admittedly, I have never tried an electronic trigger but the trigger on my LP10 is so darned light, I don't know how an electronic trigger would be ank kind of improvement for most of us. Isabel.

Hmmm.......good point, I've had several misfires so far with the light trigger of my LP10, but I'm use to large bore revolvers.I've never shot an electronic trigger either, so what would be the advantage over the ball bearing trigger we already have?So far this LP10 is the smoothest action in a gun I've fired in over two decades.

Fred Mannis · Post by **Fred Mannis** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:58 pm

A search of Swartz AND electronic will provide a good list. Here is a good thread from that series http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php ... electronic

RobStubbs · Post by **RobStubbs** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:24 am

Anonymous wrote:admittedly, I have never tried an electronic trigger but the trigger on my LP10 is so darned light, I don't know how an electronic trigger would be ank kind of improvement for most of us. Isabel.

It's nothing to do with the trigger weight, that's governed by the rules. If however you're finding the trigger too light, then increase the weight or increase the 2nd stage weight, as a lot of people have the differential between 1st and 2nd stage too close.

Rob.

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:11 am

Anonymous wrote:admittedly, I have never tried an electronic trigger but the trigger on my LP10 is so darned light, I don't know how an electronic trigger would be ank kind of improvement for most of us. Isabel.

It's not about weight, it's more about feel.

Assuming well set up triggers, some people prefer the feel of an electronic, some people prefer the feel of a mechanical and some people can't tell the difference.

Whilst the Steyr or Morini mechanical might have some advantages over the electronic Morini, they were not enough to dissuade me from buying a 162EI. For me, that electronic trigger more than makes up for any other possible disadvantages.

Steve Swartz as Guest · Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:26 am

Jeeze Fred a real "Blast from the Past!"

Maybe if we just archived the whole danged forum into some kinda Wiki deal we could solve world hunger . . .

[ps IIRC there were a couple of other threads that got into more detail about the advantages of the "constant force profile" and even discussed some attempts by mfgrs to try [unsuccessfully] to make mechanicals duplicate the constant force profile of the electrics . . . ]

Bottom line: If you enjoy learning how to overcome being kicked in the shins at the instant the shot is released, by all means stick with mechanical triggers (for more pain- stick with single stage, mechanical triggers).

jipe · Post by **jipe** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:50 pm

cloudswimmer wrote:
jipe wrote:
cloudswimmer wrote:So any word on upgrade of LP10 to LP10e yet?
You mean upgrade of the lp10e to lp10 ! Not sure the reverse is an upgrade ?
I thought I wrote LP10 to LP10e as the upgrade route.I hope I'm not developing slysdexia 80

Sorry, it was a joke and also the upgrade buyers of some other electronic trigger pistol would like to do.

I talked yesterday withy the Steyr importer in my country about the LP10E (he saw the LP10E) and the less that I can say is that he is not enthusiastic about the electronic triggers !

j-team · Post by **j-team** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:57 pm

Steve Swartz as Guest wrote:Bottom line: If you enjoy learning how to overcome being kicked in the shins at the instant the shot is released, by all means stick with mechanical triggers (for more pain- stick with single stage, mechanical triggers).

Being "kicked in the shins at the instant the shot is realeasd" doesn't seem to have adversely effected all the World and Olympic champions...

Steve Swartz as Guest · Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:32 am

J-Team:

How woud we know?

That's like saying back in 1878 "Since all the records were set using patch and ball ball black powder, this newfangled cartridge stuff is a bunch of BS!"

Or, conversely- consider if modern electronic trigger technology were available for the top shooters in the 1950s through 1970s . . . would they have shot better scores?

We can't know, since they didn't.

The facts are simple and clear: current mechanical trigger design provides a sudden drop off in resistance to the pad of the trigger finger at the moment of shot release. The electronics do not.

If this sudden drop-off in force wasn't a problem . . . why have the top shooters spent so much time and trouble to make it go away? [e.g. trigger stops]

Steve Swartz

Tycho · Post by **Tycho** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:13 am

If that letoff was SOOO important, why didn't the SAM M10 design take off like a spaceship? It's got a mechanical trigger with the same 2-spring setup as the CM162, and works with two offset radii, not the common sears, so no fall-through at all. Despite that, nobody really liked it... And looking at today's world class lineups, the (still mechanical) Steyr seems way ahead. I really think it's personal preference, not an objective issue.

Zollman · Post by **Zollman** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:14 pm

I can't stand that sudden let off. It feels like cutting the twine that I am using to hold up a grand piano;...snip, and the piano falls and I am on my bum, battered and bruised. It is downright painful!...........

Okay, who are we kidding here; dropping from 500 grams to whatever your first stage is, say 250 grams, is only significant as an isolated event. It is not a jarring event, when operated by a shooter considering that the gun weighs about 1000 grans and a shooter weighs 65-75 kilos.

Consistent grip, consistent follow through, consistent force applied directly rearward on the trigger, and consistent point of aim generally results in consistent point of impact, regardless of system design. I would imagine any hungry world class shooter would use any legal system to maximize their score. The fact is that the Morini system has been out there quite a while and is not universally accepted as the most advantageous system. It is a great design, being both consistent and reliable. It is different. It is the best for some.

What has been the highest score ever shot with a Feinwerkbau M65? Talk about a complex system with a lot of strange physical events happening. Isn't it 581? Then again, the operator didn't mind being kicked in the shins. I doubt he even felt the pain.

Zollman

william · Post by **william** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:44 pm

and a shooter weighs 65-75 kilos.

Oh, if this were only so! 100 Kg - if I gain any more weight I'll have my own event horizon.

Zollman · Post by **Zollman** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:05 pm

I used a quasi average. I too am a tad above that. Better for us, right; less impact regarding the dreaded "sear let-off." In fact I think Newton gives us complete exemption from most of those painful events. All but one- gravity!

Zollman

Steve Swartz · Post by **Steve Swartz** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:10 pm

Gee, with all the overwhelming evidence on the superiority of mechanical triggers, I wonder why Steyr is going to all the trouble . . . or why Morini (an otherwise inferior design, except for the trigger) has been so popular and successful.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying but the counterarguments seem to fall into one of two broad categories

1. The force change is no big deal; lots of us are used to it (including many world class competitors)

or

2. Other crappy guns tried to alleviate the dropoff (including both electrical and mechanical designs) and didn't all of a sudden take over the universe

Oddly enough, I don't seem to find either of those two arguments at all compelling!

Sorry for my stubborness . . . some of you seem really sensitive about this!

Steve

jipe · Post by **jipe** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:44 pm

Steve Swartz wrote: 1. The force change is no big deal; lots of us are used to it (including many world class competitors)

or

2. Other crappy guns tried to alleviate the dropoff (including both electrical and mechanical designs) and didn't all of a sudden take over the universe

I think that the two above statements explain a lot:
- yes, you can learn to shoot (and shoot very well) with the dropoff
- dropoff is just one element, there are many others and the top pistol is the one that has all elements right and at the top. This explains the success of the Steyr: since the LP1, Steyr pistols have no weak points while the competitors have this or that less good.

Now, why Steyr is going into electronic trigger ? May be just a marketing issue, i.e. to be able to offer a pistol to both mechanical trigger lovers and electronic triggers lovers. The Steyr importer confirmed me that the mechanical trigger will remain available just as Morini has both mechanical and electronic trigger pistols.

And last point, why

Steve Swartz wrote:some of you seem really sensitive about this

may be because there are much more bad/failure electronic triggers than successfull ones. Actually, only Morini seems really to have a well working, reliable electronic trigger. Read the other thread about the Pardini SP1, even Morini didn't dare to offer a standard pistol with an electronic trigger, only single shot pistols. The latest/recent CM22M RF keeps his mechanical trigger (and its a very good one).

william · Post by **william** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:55 pm

Steve,
Methinks the gent doth protest too much (apologies to the bard).

You take force dropoff as a given; yet you fail to do what you demand of others, namely to quantify it. I contend that it is somewhere between infinitesimal and inconsequential and as such less important to shot execution than such admittedly subjective factors as "feel" and trust. Human beings are psychological as well as physio-mechanical creatures.

You can only fool some of the people some of the time by your previous statement about shooters in the past not having electric triggers, and therefore.... Many shooters bridged the mechanical and electric eras - Don Nygord for one - and they did not flock willy-nilly to electrics.

Might it be that Steyr simply sees the commercial value in introducing an electric?