How Hot.....

higginsdj · Post by **higginsdj** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:01 pm

OK - I am thinking that when I eventually get to own a pistol (.22 and AP) I may want to visit the range at lunch time or after work. This would mean keeping the pistol stored in the car during the day (suitably locked to the car and out of site - ie the boot.). The club range is less than 1km from work but more than 30km from home.

First, in Australia, is this OK or considered a no-no.

Second, if it is OK, in the Aussie summer it can get very hot in the car so how about locking the pistol and ammunition (or gas/air cylinder for an AP) in an eski (just an closed empty eski - dry, no ice or cooler etc)

What do others do?

Cheers

David

Richard H · Post by **Richard H** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:15 pm

Even here in Canada where its not as hot, I'd think it would be a bad idea to let it bake in the hot trunk (boot) of a car for eight hours. It would be very bad for ammo.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:46 am

In Australia you can't leave a firearm in a vehicle and ammunition can not be stored with a firearm at any time.

higginsdj · Post by **higginsdj** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:29 am

Well obviously one must be able to leave the gun in the car for at least some period of time and I doubt the law expects one to transport the pistol in one car and the ammunition in another so it's not quite as cut and dry.

What does one do when travelling to a competition and then competing in it over several days? Where does one 'store' the pistol and ammunition then?

Cheers

David

JamesH · Post by **JamesH** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:15 am

Depends on your state.

In SA they either need to be under your direct control or locked in a suitable safe - not a car which is easily stolen or broken into.
If you leave it unattended for eight hours forget it.

If they got stolen you can expect to lose your license.

Simple answer is to ask your local Police for advice, they may accept a safe chained or bolted into the car, or not.

'The ACT Firearms Act holds the owners of firearms personally responsible for the security and safe keeping of their firearms and for ensuring that firearms do not come into the possession of unauthorised persons.

Non-compliance with the safe keeping laws can lead to the seizure of firearms by the police.

Firearms owners should obtain a copy of the firearms storage guidelines from the ACT Firearms Registry, as the requirements vary for categories and numbers of firearms stored.'
http://www.afp.gov.au/act/firearms.html

'What does one do when travelling to a competition and then competing in it over several days? Where does one 'store' the pistol and ammunition then?'
Tricky - preferably stored in a club armoury.

Spencer · Post by **Spencer** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:18 am

higginsdj wrote:OK - I am thinking that when I eventually get to own a pistol (.22 and AP) I may want to visit the range at lunch time or after work. This would mean keeping the pistol stored in the car during the day (suitably locked to the car and out of site - ie the boot.). The club range is less than 1km from work but more than 30km from home.
First, in Australia, is this OK or considered a no-no.
Second, if it is OK, in the Aussie summer it can get very hot in the car so how about locking the pistol and ammunition (or gas/air cylinder for an AP) in an eski (just an closed empty eski - dry, no ice or cooler etc)
What do others do?
Cheers
David

I would suggest you ask one of the CNPC committee (e.g. Captain) regarding ACT Firearms regulations, rather than opinions on the web.

Given that temeratures in a closed car in the Canberra summer can get to around 50C, ammunition will probably deteriorate, and filled AP cylinders (CO2 or PCP) will be way over their pressure rating.

What do others do? Not leave unattended firearms or ammunition in the vehicle for extended periods.

Spencer

Freepistol · Post by **Freepistol** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:32 am

Wow, it's tuff being a gun owner down under!

sbtzc · Post by **sbtzc** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:48 am

Perhaps you could make arragements with your shooting club to allow you to drop off your gear and lock it away on your way to work. Then you can go shoot at lunch or after work and pick up your gear on the way home.

Just my 2¢

David Levene · Post by **David Levene** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:23 am

Freepistol wrote:Wow, it's tuff being a gun owner down under!

I wish it was that tough here in the UK :-(

higginsdj · Post by **higginsdj** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:22 pm

My reading of the ACT firearms act is that it is not much more than a list of guidelines - it lacks specifics and much of the 'law' is left up tot eh discretion of the Registry Sergeant (Police). Its like the tax laws. They give you guidance as to what you can claim as a deduction but if the power to be's interpretation differs from your own then you get crucified.

Its as if the 'laws' are written to discourage participation and makes one wonder if it really is worth all the hassle......

The local club does not have an armoury (I wonder how many actually do).

Hi Spencer, the Captain won't be around for some time.....

jacques b gros · Post by **jacques b gros** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:40 pm

Pack the whole lot on an unmarked case, take into the office and use for foot rest.

Good for your back and will be under your eyes...

GeorgeH · Post by **GeorgeH** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:11 am

If I expect to shoot during lunch, I just take my guns to work with me. Everyone I work with knows that I am active in shooting sports, and I've been carring a concealed firearm on my person since 1981. But what I do is legal where I live (southeastern Michigan).

In the rear of my car, I have 4 spotting scope stands (but only 3 spotting scopes), 4 mats, two off hand stands, 8 slings, anywhere between 200 to 5,000 rounds of ammunition, et cetera. Carring between one and five firearms back there as well is common as well.

In the spring and summer, I just add fly fishing rods, reels, and related gear to the mix.

Muffo · Post by **Muffo** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:20 am

Youn transport it to and from a shooting event, you can stop for food, fuel and accomodation, while at a shooting event in most states as far as i know you can take it in a cocked box into your hotel/motel room. some states you have to go to a police station when you enter the state to inform them you will be carrying guns (not sure if you still have to do this but years ago it had to be done) you can have your guns and ammo in your car as it is being transported not stored. as far as leaving them in your car at work it is elegal, but so are a lot of things

JamesH · Post by **JamesH** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:32 am

Basically, in Aus if the Police catch you, or they get stolen, your shooting career is over.

higginsdj · Post by **higginsdj** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:05 pm

I must admit that this sounds like a grey area with lots of differing opinions.

Lets look at the local club events. After the mornings shoot the pistols are stored back in the car and then shooters socialize for a couple of hours in the club house. At big shoots without armouries (ie most?) do shooters carry their pistols around with them all the time or do they leave them locked in the car when not in actual use? ie if I shoot and help out at the event (officiate, patch etc) then the pistol will be locked in the car and I might be helping out for 4-5 or more hours at the shoot. This would seem to be routine!? What then is the difference between this and leaving the pistol locked in a car between home and club, stopping off at work for 4 or so hours? Or is it that it meets the intent of the law in that the pistols, although locked in the car, are still located at an 'authorised' location ie a pistol range?

Interestingly the local firearms registry recently provided me with advice on storage and transport. The one for the vehicle was titled "Storage and Transport in a Vehicle". The law obviously does not cover off every situation and as such, much like tax laws, intelligent interpretation needs to be applied knowing that a decision can go against you if it ever needed to be investigated/reviewed.

Muffo · Post by **Muffo** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:00 am

are still located at an 'authorised' location ie a pistol range?

is your answer to that one, but it must be locked. if unlocked once again you are in the shit. I have been pulled over and checked with pistols on the way home from my club and they wanted to know where i had been and where i was going then they went back to their car for a while, came back and let me go. I am asuming they were making sure i was only going to and from the range

JamesH · Post by **JamesH** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:35 am

At opens either hold onto them or lock them in your car.
I chain the metal case to my car, so if someone breaks into the car (easy) they then have to work out how to open the box or cut the chain (not so easy).

The police might be OK with the above for your situation, suggest asking them.

Muffo · Post by **Muffo** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:01 am

In WA you have to have it bolted/chained to the car and i think you have to apply for a permit to enter the state with them

Fred Mannis · Post by **Fred Mannis** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:39 am

Muffo wrote:In WA you have to have it bolted/chained to the car and i think you have to apply for a permit to enter the state with them

I do feel sorry for you folks. And I give you credit for persevering. If I lived in that situation, I would likely have found another hobby.

Richard H · Post by **Richard H** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:25 am

Fred you probably wouldn't. I live in Canada and a lot of this stuff sounds way more onerous than it is. Most of these things come about in small steps, it's way easier to take people's freedom away from them in small doses, just as they do in the US, using the phrase "these are reasonable".

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