Page 1 of 2
NYC 2012
Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:22 pm
by deleted1
I just read that the USAS is now backing the Olympic cause for NYC 2012. I had to comment to them regarding the hypocricy of this cause. NYC is one of the most anti-gun and gun repressive cities in the world. The fact that Mayor Bloomberg is out for the business, between himself and the Police Commissioner they have made it an even worse nightmare for the honest gun owner than has existed until now. For a pistol shooter it is an Marine Corps obstacle course to be able to purchase a gun. I know of many such shooters who reside in NYC and what they have gone through---just a couple more thoughts---it is illegal to possess an Air Pistol within the city limits ( no matter if it is a "Target Pistol" ), if the Olympinas were to land in NYC with their guns they would be subject to immediate arrest for possession ( one-year automatic jail sentence )---according to the current gun laws in the City of New York. I shame the USAS for falling into this idiocy and suggest they drop their support of NYC2012.
USAS caught between USOC and a hard place
Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:32 pm
by dumbfounded
Bob, I think many here share your disgust with NYC's prolonged political anti-gun stance. However, it was USOC that selected NYC as their favored candidate city to host the 2012 Games, not USAS. I suspect USAS is simply trying to support their NOC's bid city choice, even it it was or wasn't their own. USAS exists as the NGB of international shooting only at the pleasure of USOC.
Recall LA in 1984, where the city made some small but servicable room for shooting, a sport their political leadership disliked then and still does now. (Also recall that the head of the LA organizing committee is the hand on the wheel at USOC today.) Hopefully NYC will make similar if spartan arrangements for the shooting events and venues, but probably somewhere out of sight and well outside the city limits.
In light of our recent experiences in LA, Atlanta and Salt Lake City, don't plan in there being any legacy facility left over for our sport should NYC get the 2012 Games. I suspect the range will be gutted and bulldozed to the ground before the echos of the last national anthem have faded.
That's what happens when you don't control your own venues, and thus you don't and can't control the future of your sport.
Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:54 pm
by Shin
www.NYC2012.com wrote:The new Olympic Shooting Center was designed in conjunction with the New York Police Department, which will operate the facility after the Games. The Center will dramatically enhance the NYPD's current training facilities, and will be avaliable for future shooting competitions.
NYC 2012 range facility legacy
Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:29 pm
by dumbfounded
Shin,
Good to hear NYPD gets a new firearms training facility on IOC and NYCOC's dime.
Exactly how does that benefit the growth of the Olympic shooting sports in the USA?
Still dumbfounded...
Re: NYC 2012 range facility legacy
Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:42 pm
by Shin
dumbfounded wrote:Shin,
Good to hear NYPD gets a new firearms training facility on IOC and NYCOC's dime.
I think NYPD gets nothing. NYC has no chances along with Moscow...
http://bestbetting.com/Default.aspx?group=2001542
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:57 am
by Mike McDaniel
I agree with everybody. NYC is a wretched place to host the Olympics (I liked the Washington-area bid a lot better), but my money would be on Paris for 2012.
The problem is, the USOC tends to stick with one bid until it DOES win.
Now, there is a very distinct potential for USAS here - I'd bet long odds that if USAS went to the NYC organizing committee with a proposal for a range ANYWHERE in the United States, it would probably be accepted. Remember that in 1996, the preliminary soccer games were being held all over the East Coast. So a a range in Pennsylvania might well work out. If nothing else, maybe we can arrange to snag the targets - which are not cheap.
The case of the vanishing NYC2012 logo
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:01 pm
by dumbfounded
It was a dark and stormy night. The angry villagers surrounded the Castle of the 5 Golden Rings, armed with keyboards, pitchforks and torches...
Suddenly, the much maligned NYC2012 bid logo simply vanished from the USAS website, replaced by the logo of another bastion of liberty and human rights, Beijing 2008.
The irony was not lost on some of those assembled.
To be continued....
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:14 pm
by Spencer C
Mike McDaniel wrote:I agree with everybody. NYC is a wretched place to host the Olympics (I liked the Washington-area bid a lot better), but my money would be on Paris for 2012.
The problem is, the USOC tends to stick with one bid until it DOES win.
Now, there is a very distinct potential for USAS here - I'd bet long odds that if USAS went to the NYC organizing committee with a proposal for a range ANYWHERE in the United States, it would probably be accepted. Remember that in 1996, the preliminary soccer games were being held all over the East Coast. So a a range in Pennsylvania might well work out. If nothing else, maybe we can arrange to snag the targets - which are not cheap.
Aha!
The trouble is that this further isolates 'shooting' from the Olympics:
- isolates the shooters and team people from the athletes' village; a very real part of the Olympics,
- makes it difficult for shooters not part of the first day of competition to attend the Opening Cermony (makes it impossible for those competing on the first day),
- virtually eliminates any non-shooting spectators from shooting events (it's amazing how many day-ticket people will look in at the shooting venue if it is part of a 'circuit'),
- worst of all, puts shooting out-of-sight / out-of mind.
S
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:32 pm
by william
I'll support just about anything that will make the NYPD better, more responsible shooters. 9/11 has made people forget how those guys turned an apartment building foyer into an unaimed free-fire zone and how they proved that 4 Glocks beat a wallet every time. OT, I know. I apologize for that, but not for the thought.
Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:36 pm
by Jose Rossy
Shin wrote:www.NYC2012.com wrote:The new Olympic Shooting Center was designed in conjunction with the New York Police Department, which will operate the facility after the Games. The Center will dramatically enhance the NYPD's current training facilities,
and will be avaliable for future shooting competitions.
Riiiiiiiiiiight..........
What utter bullshit.
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:05 pm
by mikeschroeder
HI
I don't think that the NYPD will allow any matches on their property. I live in Wichita KS, a pro-gun STATE, although the city itself is about 50/50. I helped teach an air rifle class, where one of the parents was Wichita PD. We of course asked if we could use the WPD range for Smallbore classes. He said not only no, but hell no. He stated that the rules were SO tough for the police range, that his wife couldn't even come and WATCH him do his yearly qualification shoot.
I don't think that any reasonable person would EVEN attempt to go to a match in New York City even if the NYPD said they would let you. I just don't see it happening.
I would like to see a Pennsylvania gun club put up their land to host the Olympic shooting sports in 2012. That way, a club could get a nice olympic style range that would actually be available for civilian shooters.
Later
Mike
Wichita KS
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:52 pm
by deleted1
I think that the NY/NJ corridor is the worst possible place in the world to develop any Olympic shooting program. Both states are totally nuts as anti-gunners---IMHO totally rabid. NYC for the Olympics would be a security fiasco bar none. I live on Long Island and when we had the Republican Convention in 2004 in NYC, I got off the Island a week before and came back a week after. As far as Pennsylvania is concerned that's too great a distance for the venue to be placed for a NYC 2012 Olympics. As far as the NYPD allowing outside shooters in after the games---get a real life---you are hallucinating on some serious drugs. That's the biggest laugher I have heard in 74 years. Who the hell do you think has pushed the NYC anti-gun laws to the point they are right now??? I think I will post a copy of the latest additions the NYPD wants to add to their already ridiculous laws---it will make you sick and glad you don't live there. I still say shame on USAS.
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:27 pm
by mikeschroeder
Bob Riegl wrote:As far as Pennsylvania is concerned that's too great a distance for the venue to be placed for a NYC 2012 Olympics.
As far as the NYPD allowing outside shooters in after the games---get a real life---you are hallucinating on some serious drugs.
Hi
First of all, I think that if the Shooting venues were elsewhere, then those people who actually wanted to see shooting would see them, so a few people don't live in the Olympic Village..... Better than having shooters pay to support something that the liberals will quickly tear down.
The quote on the NYPD and the Matches was a DIRECT QUOTE from the NYC2012 Olympic website, I found it. I also laughed. After the Atlanta Range fiasco I don't think anyone believes that any city big enough to host an Olympics will actually allow shooters to utilize the venues after the Olympics are over.
Mike
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 6:55 pm
by Guest
mikeschroeder wrote:[
Hi
First of all, I think that if the Shooting venues were elsewhere, then those people who actually wanted to see shooting would see them, so a few people don't live in the Olympic Village..... Better than having shooters pay to support something that the liberals will quickly tear down.
...After the Atlanta Range fiasco I don't think anyone believes that any city big enough to host an Olympics will actually allow shooters to utilize the venues after the Olympics are over.
Mike
Re The trouble with "people who actually wanted to see shooting would see them" is that we would only be preaching to the converted. You probably don't understand the 'living at the village' bit until you have done it.
Re the Atlanta Fiasco -
1/ it is almost impossible (so far totally impossible) to convince the planners and architects to SERIOUSLY look at the legacy use of an Olympic range - they pay lip service to this requirement and pack up their tents and quietly steal away once the Olympics/Paralympics are over. Barcelona, Atlanta and Sydney all fall into the white elephant class, being too expensive in base-line costs to even come anywhere near being economically viable for ther than major competitions.
2/ how long does anybody think an olympic range will stay in competition condition once the police start using jjacketed centrefire ammunition at the venue
Spencer
NYC 2012
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:26 pm
by guest
I believe the range plans for the 2012 facility at Rodmans neck was posted on the NYC 2012 link on the usa shooting web site. I am not sure if the link is still there but the plans depicted the current NYPD training facility converted to an international shooting facility for the games. It is located just off of I-95 near the Bronx.Currently it is a barren sight with some trailers that is used for all the NYPD training and testing & evaluation of equipment. It is not a pretty sight out there and it is used nearly 365 days a year. They are not even sure, if they do get the games in NYC, how they will be able to give up the facility for that time period. The day it is over the facility will be back in full swing for training the 55,000 plus officers and new trainees. There is no way that I see the facility ever being used as a shooting venue for International style shooting after the games.
Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:42 pm
by Steve Swartz
The premise that "the range will be shared by NYPD and the shooting community" falls right there into the D'OH! category of obviousness.
So why is USAS a party to this charade?
Steve Swartz
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 9:01 am
by Mike McDaniel
As I said, we don't really have to have the range. There are other ranges elsewhere. But we want the Suis-Ascor targets. Desperately. And since they are no good for police training, it seems very probable that USAS could get them.
Nevertehless, I think that a range in Eastern Pennsylvania might be a better option.
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:20 am
by mikeschroeder
Hi
Serious question. How many spectators are we talking about watching an air rifle match indoors?
Air Pistol?
Smallcore?
Outdoor trap shooting etc, couldn't temporary bleacher be built?
I'd really like to see something used AFTER the Olympics. Part of the reason I ask is that I was a spectator at the Bianchi cup. They use bleachers on trailers for the spectators. I watched the falling plate FINAL where Robbie Leatham won. THere were 5-10 Non-participantes watching. That's at a USA National event (actually international). WHen I went to the preliminery Bianchi cup matches I was the only spectator.
Later
Mike
Mike
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:11 pm
by kelly
The idea of being a spectator rather than a participant isn't my idea of a good time. I would rather shoot in the basement than watch any sport! Now that the olympics are a professional sport it needs lots of spectators in order to cover the costs. The only spectator time most shooters spend is that done while waiting for their turn on the firing line.
mikeschroeder wrote:Hi
Serious question. How many spectators are we talking about watching an air rifle match indoors?
Air Pistol?
Smallcore?
Outdoor trap shooting etc, couldn't temporary bleacher be built?
I'd really like to see something used AFTER the Olympics. Part of the reason I ask is that I was a spectator at the Bianchi cup. They use bleachers on trailers for the spectators. I watched the falling plate FINAL where Robbie Leatham won. THere were 5-10 Non-participantes watching. That's at a USA National event (actually international). WHen I went to the preliminery Bianchi cup matches I was the only spectator.
Later
Mike
Mike
Could we be proactive?
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:59 pm
by guest
We can rant and complain all we want-it doesn't get us a shooting facility.
We need to be proactive. Right now start raising names, addresses and interest. Try to get a unified vision for what we want to see happen the day after a NYC games ends. The day after NYC is awarded the games we start working on it-raising the $, raising the interest, talking to USAS, the NRA, the politicians etc.
it would take a really dedicated person/group to get this going, ideally in the NY area. Then it would take all of us buying into the unified vision, not whining, and commiting to getting it done.
Are we up to it?