TargetTalk

Folks,
I'm trying to find any actual clinical studies into the effects of various doping factors in target shooting. I seem to recall a study on beta-blockers that showed that side effects outweighed benefits, but I've since found two that showed up to a 13% improvement in score for pistol shooters. I'd like a definite answer one way or the other, so I thought I'd ask on here!

So, has anyone looked into this before?

I know for a fact that certain pain killers do a wonderful job on steadiness----we used to call them "group tighteners." I know for a fact that Percoset, taken for arthritic pain produced a match score I haven't duplicated since that day. I also have run into several "wet" shooters---guys and gals who have a wee bite of the devil on hand. There is a local Free pistol afficionado who always has a bottle of Sprite in his hands during matches---but it ain't Sprite in that bottle---good old Polish Vodka. Colorless, odorless, tasteless when mixed with a wee bit of the Sprite. Of course his actions such as turning around with a cocked FP during a match has often caused his early exeunt ----I am certain that testing is a part of shooting as in other events---the normal protocol is that the event medalists are escorted to the "pee-pee" room to provide an immediate sample. I agree that this is something we would all like to hear about---perhaps Eric Buljung could provide an answer to this without much speculation.

Testing is definitely done, and they take a distubingly close look as the pee leaves the body and enters the container. Fortunately never done to me personally, as I was only shooting the manly events of Standard and Center Fire. But everyone else who was shooting the Olympic matches got called upon for donations. (Oceania 2001). I know at one stage ephedrine as found in some cold+flu tablets was a banned substance. As is too much caffeine. AFAIK the banned substance list is one that all sports follow, there aren't any sport specific lists.

I guess you could always ask your "Sprite" drinker to blow into a breathalyser. Can't be good for the competition wondering if they are going to get an accidental bullet to the head cause he got the wobbles.

Of course I now just read this:

http://www.ausshooting.org/PDFs/ASDA%20 ... letter.pdf

Which shows that caffeine and pseudo-ephedrine are not banned anymore.

Actually there are sport specifics to the list.

Darious Young used to take a nip or two during matches and was caught, busted and can never shoot international again.

At least that is what I had heard from other shooters in the early 90's who were around when it all went down.

The first selection match I shot in he was there and did not make the final in Air Pistol. I did.

Bob Riegl wrote:I know for a fact that certain pain killers do a wonderful job on steadiness----we used to call them "group tighteners." I know for a fact that Percoset, taken for arthritic pain produced a match score I haven't duplicated since that day.

I am pretty sure that the generic name for Percoset is Oxycodone Hydrochloride which is prohibited in competition. Even if only small residual traces are found, it would constitute a doping offence.

Sparks wrote:Folks,
I'm trying to find any actual clinical studies into the effects of various doping factors in target shooting. I seem to recall a study on beta-blockers that showed that side effects outweighed benefits, but I've since found two that showed up to a 13% improvement in score for pistol shooters. I'd like a definite answer one way or the other, so I thought I'd ask on here!

So, has anyone looked into this before?

Here is one reference which could be worth following up if you havn't come across it already. I have not sought this article out myself, but it looks interesting.

Krause, P., Ladefoged, J., Nielsen, P. E. P., & Sorensen, J. P., "Beta blockage used in precision sports: effects on pistol shooting performance", Journal of Applied Physiology, 61, (1986), pp. 417-420.

I suspect there is no "definitive" answer. Different researchers come to different conclusions all the time. Anecdonatly, I have heard people say that Beta Blockers made a huge difference (they ended up with a rock-steady gun, but icy-cold feet!), and others who said it didn't seem to make any difference at all. Probably because of the number of participants involved compared to target shooting, there is a more research looking at Beta Blockers and their effect on golf players. Some of this may be applicable to shooting.

The modern penthalon team got involved in doping experiments some years ago. The team was located at Fort Sam Houston,Texas at the time. Brooks Army Hospital is co located. Some of the competitors began asking the Doctors for something they called a win pill.their performances deteriated to the point that it became noticed by senior officers and the intire program was disbanded. There is no such thing as a win pill. National and world record scores require the shooter to perform at maximum efficiency for the requride number of shots and chemicles do not provide thr required consistancyof mental and physical control. Just my 2 cents worth.

After reading these posts, It's easy to speculate as to why USAS isn't supporting us older club shooters. While the chances are slim to none that I'd ever reach a level to be competative internationally, my chances are also slim to none, that if I did, I'd pass a drug screening, what with all the meds I've been taking to allow me to reach this age !:>)

Paul

I'm not sure about that, but I do think there is a need for a shooting-specific drug list. Shooters average older than competitors in the Spandex Sports, are far more likely to be on medications for legitimate health reasons, and there are far fewer drugs that would actually help a shooter's performance.

Mike M. wrote:I'm not sure about that, but I do think there is a need for a shooting-specific drug list. Shooters average older than competitors in the Spandex Sports, are far more likely to be on medications for legitimate health reasons, and there are far fewer drugs that would actually help a shooter's performance.

...and in most cases you can get a Therepeutic Use Exemption (not for beta blockers) if you are serious about shooting. Your National Governing Body should be able to tell you if you need one and advise on the procedure.

I'm afraid that if shooting had a special list then every sport would want a special list. Much better to have one list with the aim of making all sport drug free but then allowing competitors exemptions for all but the worst drugs (sport specific) on genuine medical grounds.

David Levene wrote:...and in most cases you can get a Therepeutic Use Exemption (not for beta blockers) if you are serious about shooting. Your National Governing Body should be able to tell you if you need one and advise on the procedure.

Didn't we talk about this problem last fall? I'll have to remember to add this to the list of complaints about the USAS if that other thread wakes up again. This is not the UK. We don't really have a working NGB.

Nicole Hamilton wrote: I'll have to remember to add this to the list of complaints about the USAS if that other thread wakes up again. This is not the UK. We don't really have a working NGB.

For doping, the US Anti Doping Agency, http://www.usantidoping.org/ , is in charge, not USAS.

Fortitudo Dei wrote:
Krause, P., Ladefoged, J., Nielsen, P. E. P., & Sorensen, J. P., "Beta blockage used in precision sports: effects on pistol shooting performance", Journal of Applied Physiology, 61, (1986), pp. 417-420.

Here are some other references. As far as I have seen, most of these studies shown an improvement of shooting performance under influence of Beta blockers. Either because it reduses your shaking, or because it takes off the sharp edges of match anxiety.


S'Jongers, J.J., Willain, P., Sierakowski, J., Vogelaere, P., Van Vlaenderen, G., & De Rudder, M. (1978). Effects of placebos and of small doses of a beta blocker (oxprenolol) and ethyl alcohol on the precision of pistol shooting. Bruxelles medical, 58 (8), 395 399.

Schmid, P. (1990). The use of beta blocking agents in competitive sports. Wiener Medizinische Wochenschrift, 140 (6 7), 184 188.

Siitonen, L., Sonck, T., & Janne, J. (1977). Effect of beta blockade on performance: use of beta blockade in bowling and shooting competitions. Journal of International Medical Research, 5359 366.

Never tried 'em. Some folks say they helped, others (team doc for one) said if you took enough to make a difference, you would die shortly afterward. Caffene probably won't help shooting, so if it came off the list, I don't see much of a change.

USADA takes their list from the IOC, so we really don't have much control over it. You can get a health related exemption for certain drugs, but most of 'em don't help shooting.

Much past 50 years of age, with a few execptions, it won't make any difference. Can't see well enough to come close to a drug test.

I know coffee is not very good for shooters. One of my namesakes - a Moedrn Pentathlete, was disqualified for having too much caffeine in his system, when he was tested during an Olympic games, some years ago.
He got 10 years, and a few hundred dollars of lawyers fees to try to clear his name.
Nowadays they get a mere 2 years for hard drugs that really enhance their performances.

I also know that vodka is not good for shooters. I refer to an incident with a Russian Modern Pentathlete. He was so intoxicated that his coach lined him up with the targets. He shot the first 5 shots - perfect 10s - when he realized he had put them in the next target to his own! He repeated this again with the next 5 shots - another perfect 10s run! This time he shot on still another bay's targets!!

My suggestion - don't even think about alcohol, coffee, or cokecola that they will improve your shooting. Hard work is the only way. All other medication - like asthma inhalers, or blood pressure tablets, etc will not help for shooting 10s except lots of practice.
Alex L.

I might be an rare exception: I don´t have any experience on shooting without beta blockers. I started to shoot at the age of 45. Already then I had a coronary artery disease. As you probably know beta blockers are the most common medication for this disease (and in many cases the only alternative).

How do the beta blockers influence on my shooting? You could expect that with my daily dose (10 mg), I should have a world class hold and match nerves like steel. But I don´t. I have been shooting AP and FP about six years. My practice AP scores are usually between 520-525 (FP 470-485). I compete at the lowest club level. I have never shot over 500 in a AP competition. Why? I have very bad match nerves: my hand and also my legs are shaking.

I think that I am a living proof that beta blockers won´t make you a good shooter. So forget them and keep on practicing.

By the way I have a TUE for beta blockers. You can have one at the national level but not at the international level.

TIS

There are sport specific lists. Fencers, cyclists, track & field, other speed/power/strength athletes can only use afrin (oxymetazoline) spray for stuffy nose, not pseudoephedrine; and asthmatics require special dispensation for beta agonists. Nobody cares if they take beta blockers since they would impair performance. I don't think these are banned for shooters since they increase tremor and reduce performance (excluding the skiing portion of biathlon and non shooting portions of pentathlon). Only an idiot would try to improve precision shooting with caffeine ( certain action shooting events excepted). Beta blockers are banned for shooters because they absolutely reduce tremor (we give them to stage performers to reduce the physical manifestations of stage fright, as well as to control a condition called benign essential tremor). I recall a Peruvian pistol shooter thrown out of the Pan Am games several years ago when he tested positive for beta blocker. Like steroids and EPO, in the appropriate context, beta blockers work. It's not a placebo. That's why it's cheating.

Anonymous wrote:I might be an rare exception: I don´t have any experience on shooting without beta blockers. I started to shoot at the age of 45. Already then I had a coronary artery disease. As you probably know beta blockers are the most common medication for this disease (and in many cases the only alternative).

How do the beta blockers influence on my shooting? You could expect that with my daily dose (10 mg), I should have a world class hold and match nerves like steel. But I don´t. I have been shooting AP and FP about six years. My practice AP scores are usually between 520-525 (FP 470-485). I compete at the lowest club level. I have never shot over 500 in a AP competition. Why? I have very bad match nerves: my hand and also my legs are shaking.

I think that I am a living proof that beta blockers won´t make you a good shooter. So forget them and keep on practicing.

By the way I have a TUE for beta blockers. You can have one at the national level but not at the international level.

TIS

A drug by itself won't fix poor technique, just as steriods won't make you run fast or lift more. Couple the drug with an athlete who has proper technique and thats where they make a difference. It may make the difference between shooting a 583 and a 589. The higher you go those few extra point are very hard to get. They wont make a 525 shooter shoot 580, they are drugs not magic beans.