First, congratulations to all of the shooters who competed and did their best in Athens. They are all champions in their own right.
Here in the U.S., it is becoming more and more apparent that we are lagging behind the "powerhouse" shooting nations- China comes to mind.
There was a story on NBC about how the Chinese develop their athletes from a young age (in a Socialist scheme), where prospective talent is sent off to train at a very young age. The article also discussed how the approach in the U.S. is very different, where we seem to focus on a much smaller pool of athletes and, in effect, throw all of the resources at them.
There is clearly nothing new here, and I remember very vividly the day the U.S. beat the communist nations at Lake Placid, in hockey. It was a huge moment in sport.
Whereas the medal count in Athens shows the USA on top, there are specific sports where we are clearly lagging. Diving comes to mind (not one medal for the U.S., and certain shooting events are not far behind.
While winning a medal in the Olympics has been described to me as a "crap shoot" in many cases, where luck, judging, etc. are all factors that influence the outcome, in many events our U.S. shooters failed to even make the finals. In other events, the outcome was even worse.
The question is where do we go from here? Not to sound negative, but I think we need to turn to our NGBs:
1. When will we develop a pistol program? There are literally thousands of adults (with pistols) in the US, as we are truly a pro-gun nation. But for some reason, a jr. development program for pistol is absent.
2. Women's smallbore/air rifle continues to decline. I don't understand why, as we have the talent. Any ideas? Is it the selection process? Is it lack of interest to compete at such a high level?
3. Shotgun has been historically strong, and my guess is that '04 was simply a "hiccup", vs. a systemic problem.
4. Running target is now history, so dwelling on a lost sport is counter-productive.
I will do all I can to continur developing juniors, but I think WE need to press our NGBs (USAS, NRA, CMP) to come together and do more, and to listen to us carefully. Likewise, we need to support them.
Finally, it is clear that the ISSF will try to make some rule changes in the near future, and we need to let USA Shooting know our opinions. Write letters, call them, and let them know how you feel. They represent us. But equally important, be sure you are doing all you can to support shooting programs in the U.S.- either financially or through volunteering.
Bill
After the Olympics... Now What?
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
-
Pradeep
Once the 2005 rule changes are implemented, I believe there can be no major changes till at least after the 2008 Olympics.
Apparently China is going all out to be top medallist in Beijing, doing whatever it takes in terms of resources.
In the USA, it seems that at least with the media there is a tremendous desire to only win gold. A silver or bronze isn't "good enough". Crazy stuff.
Also whilst there are lots of pro-gunners in the US, quantity doesn't translate to quality. Look at Australia, 20 million population compared to around 300 million in the USA, and close to half the number of medals of the USA.
With shooting at least nothing is guaranteed, anyone going into the Final has a good chance. Just because you won 4 years ago etc doesn't mean you will win today.
Apparently China is going all out to be top medallist in Beijing, doing whatever it takes in terms of resources.
In the USA, it seems that at least with the media there is a tremendous desire to only win gold. A silver or bronze isn't "good enough". Crazy stuff.
Also whilst there are lots of pro-gunners in the US, quantity doesn't translate to quality. Look at Australia, 20 million population compared to around 300 million in the USA, and close to half the number of medals of the USA.
With shooting at least nothing is guaranteed, anyone going into the Final has a good chance. Just because you won 4 years ago etc doesn't mean you will win today.
-
Don
What Now?
Hi Guys: One thing that might help is to do something like other countries in that they make a big deal out of the events at all levels. If it is a club match, they have a party or celebration of some kind to award all the entrants, and the winners. As the level of competition goes up, the hoopla also goes up. Maybe this is something to look at for USAS, NRA, CMP, NG, MTU, etc to spur more interest and participation. Just something to think about.
The current anti-gun movement in the USA is definitely a contributer to the apparent "lack of talent" ----we have all seen programs disappear as fast as ranges. I used to coach High School smallbore for some 24 years and when I started we had 84 teams on Long Island. I doubt there are more than 7 or 8 HS teams on the Island today. Almost any High School built in the 40's through the 60's had a basement range as part of the construction----all of them now are merely storage rooms, especially since Columbine. I never failed to have less than 15 members on the Varsity and 45 or more Junior Varsity shooters---I never saw daylight for 8 months straight. I coached at the US Merchant Marine Academy---currently there is no longer a Varsity, JV or any rifle teams, and the Pistol program folded as the Coach (former Russian Olympic shooter) quit in disgust, with almost a total lack of funding---Yeah a US Military Academy. So where do you get the Juniors---from local small clubs----my club the Freeport R&R produced one Olympian for the Sydney games---Thrine Kane---and many collegiate shooters---but reality is once more upon us---the Chinese like the Soviet Bloc---totally funds and supports shooters--because it looks good to their people when all those medals are produced. Since when has China been a Track & Field powerhouse----once again if you are a totalitarian state you can "afford" to sift thousands of youngsters into all kinds of state supported athletic programs and produce the talent needed for the quadrennial "show of shows" the modern (Circus) Olympics. 'Nuff said.
Where From Here? (very long)
These are some very good questions.
Answers must involve three main "entities", in no particular order:
1) Organizations
2) Coaches
3) Athletes
We have one NGB - USAS. The NRA and CMP are important organizations in our country and have a huge impact on junior and adult shooting... and thus our "pool" or "farm" system. However, only USAS actually handles ISSF shooting. Other organizations also are involved in shooting in the USA, including 4H and others.
There is no organized "progression" for athletes. For example, a good BB gun shooter is often not encouraged - or even told about - opportunities to move on to other forms of shooting. Additionally, most USA shooting games come from traditions other than the Euro-centric international shooting traditions, so we are less familiar with them.
Budgets are tight because international competition medals are not a governmental or societal priority in the USA. All concerned must find their own funds.
In the last several years, the USOC has gone to a "pay for medal" system for much of the funding for the NGBs. One impact of this: USAS must justify spending money for World Cup travel and may use it only to send athletes who are competitive. This is fine for athletes who are already competitive and who can contend for quota slots.
What about the athletes who are not at that level yet? How do they get to be at that level?
Right now, they have to figure it out on their own. They have to fund it all on their own. They have to figure out how to find good coaching... and really good coaching is scarce. They have to learn how this sport really works... a process that is arduous and long, unless the athlete looks outside the sport and/or has a really good coach or training partner. Good training partners are important, and also hard to find. Oh, and did I mention funding?
Organizations, specifically USAS, need to look at how the scarce dollars are allocated and how to leverage dollars and volunteers. All organizations, national and otherwise, need to look at how and what they teach the athletes.
Now don't get me wrong, there are a ton of coaches out there who run great clubs and programs. Their dedication is incomparable and they touch the lives of so many youth who might not otherwise be able to be involved in a sport. The challenge is that the way we approach shooting, as coaches and as athletes, is focused on the physical and technical aspects of the game. These are only the foundations. Even then, many athletes can make much improvement in their game merely by tuning or adjusting aspects of their physical game. We will return to this topic.
The NRA, CMP, and USAS do cooperate very closely in the area of coach education and training. Club or school money would be well spent to pay for their coaches to take the NRA-CMP-USAS coach certification courses managed by H. Q. Moody and his staff at the NRA. These courses cover shooting and coaching (including the *excellent* ASEP Coaching Principles course). These courses lay an excellent foundation for a coach who wants to improve his or her own "game" as a teacher in the sport and as a teacher of people.
Ultimately, it comes down to the athletes. Even with the best coaching and financial support and time to train, they must put in the time and effort. Not just hard work, but "smart" work.
I have found that athlete motivation is not a problem if they have goals, have the support they need, and... most importantly... can see a path toward reaching their goals. Athlete motivation is a severe problem when they plateau for a lengthy period and when they and their coach are unable to determine what is holding the athlete back. This problem is solved through two things: 1) coach education mentioned above, and 2) a broader approach to the sport.
Those who attended any of the CMP 3P air rifle camps this summer saw a new approach to teaching much of the same material. While still rooted heavily in the physical and technical aspects of the sport (as befitting a beginner/intermediate course), the curriculum also covered mental and emotional aspects of the sport as well. There was also a strong emphasis on "here is what and how" to augment the traditional "this is important" information. This year's revised curriculum is a first step to a broader, more holistic view of what it really takes to shoot well at any level.
A number of folks are looking carefully at how we teach shooting, what we emphasize, and even how we approach the process of learning and improving in this sport. Articles that have appeared in USA Shooting News in the past year (and some articles in previous years) start to hint at some of these things. Recent examples include David Johnson's excellent article on training methods and my article on intensity training, both appearing in the May/June issue. Subsequent writings will go much deeper into the "missing" aspects.
I realize that I'm not being very specific here. This is due to space and time limitations in an already long posting. Athletes and coaches, do you want a hint? Study, learn, and actually USE the concepts and techniques found in "Body, Mind Mastery" by Dan Millman and "Extraordinary Golf" by Fred Shoemaker. Even though our sport is never mentioned once, these two books are all about shooting. Many will look at these two books and reject them as irrelevant resources. Go right ahead and reject them, but that is part of the problem!
--
Let's take a moment to look at each international shooting discipline with respect to the USA.
Running target is now completely removed from the Olympic program. While it is still a World Championship event, I will be surprised if it has many participants in the future.
Shotgun has enjoyed some success the last several years. Yes, this year's Olympics were a bit "down" from previous ones for the USA, although a number of athletes did quite well. Still, there is always room for improvement. I don't actively work with shotgun athletes at this point, but there are still concepts that apply. For example, if you are a shotgun athlete, how do you train? I've been told of some good athletes who only train complete rounds and then only when weather conditions are favorable. If it is too windy, they go play cards instead of shooting when their score might be lower. What do you suppose would happen when these athletes go to a World Cup or World Championships or Olympics and it is a very windy day? That's easy... they will be whipped by athletes who have trained in difficult conditions and who have spent an entire box of shells - or several boxes - shooting one particular target presentation at one station until it is no longer a "trouble spot" in their round. It isn't your practice score average that wins medals, it's your work on the hardest parts of your game. The athlete didn’t “have a bad day”; they were lazy.
Don’t get me wrong; there are plenty of rifle and pistol athletes who have the same problem! Coaches (regardless of discipline), are your “training” sessions almost always full or partial courses of fire for score? Do you ask your athlete “what’s wrong?” when they tear down an aspect of their game to build it up and their score temporarily drops? I would gently suggest a different approach!
Rifle has enjoyed a great deal of success internationally. Our depth at the very highest level isn't what it could be, of course. Again, it is due to cost, programs, grass roots coaching, and how we approach the sport. It is also partly due, at least with the women, because of a number of folks retiring after 1996 and 2000.
Pistol appears to have suffered greatly for some reason. We failed to win more than half of the quota slots available to us. Promising athletes have left the sport in alarming numbers. There is lots of room for improvement. Even many of our best current athletes feel like “something is missing” in their training.
--
We have seen 15 and 17 year olds and even 12 and 13 year olds do things that amaze elite level athletes. Most of the time, these promising young athletes, and others who work hard and eventually catch up to or pass these prodigies, end up not fulfilling their dreams. A few are able to find their way through the maze and realize their goals. For those who fall short, sometimes these problems are individual ones. Sometimes they are external to the athlete. Sometimes, they are systemic.
We can do a lot better! We *must* do a lot better!
As mentioned earlier, a number of folks are looking at this situation with a new perspective and making plans now for 2008 and 2012. It is needed.
--
I realize that this posting has been somewhat rambling and more than a bit disorganized. I have attempted to touch on a number of themes that speak to the question at hand. “Where do we go from here?”
We obviously do not have the capability to “sift” through thousands of candidates. We do not have the plethora of teams that we did decades ago. We do not have what we had or what others have. These are realities that we face. We can either “roll over” and give up, or treat these “obstacles” as nothing more than extra challenges that we have to overcome.
This is ultimately a sport of "Head and Heart". We need to understand that one fact and actually act on it instead of doing the “same old, same old” that we have been doing. This one thing, alone, will pay huge dividends in medals, and more importantly, in athlete fulfillment. Athletes First.
"Feel Center!"
-JP
Answers must involve three main "entities", in no particular order:
1) Organizations
2) Coaches
3) Athletes
We have one NGB - USAS. The NRA and CMP are important organizations in our country and have a huge impact on junior and adult shooting... and thus our "pool" or "farm" system. However, only USAS actually handles ISSF shooting. Other organizations also are involved in shooting in the USA, including 4H and others.
There is no organized "progression" for athletes. For example, a good BB gun shooter is often not encouraged - or even told about - opportunities to move on to other forms of shooting. Additionally, most USA shooting games come from traditions other than the Euro-centric international shooting traditions, so we are less familiar with them.
Budgets are tight because international competition medals are not a governmental or societal priority in the USA. All concerned must find their own funds.
In the last several years, the USOC has gone to a "pay for medal" system for much of the funding for the NGBs. One impact of this: USAS must justify spending money for World Cup travel and may use it only to send athletes who are competitive. This is fine for athletes who are already competitive and who can contend for quota slots.
What about the athletes who are not at that level yet? How do they get to be at that level?
Right now, they have to figure it out on their own. They have to fund it all on their own. They have to figure out how to find good coaching... and really good coaching is scarce. They have to learn how this sport really works... a process that is arduous and long, unless the athlete looks outside the sport and/or has a really good coach or training partner. Good training partners are important, and also hard to find. Oh, and did I mention funding?
Organizations, specifically USAS, need to look at how the scarce dollars are allocated and how to leverage dollars and volunteers. All organizations, national and otherwise, need to look at how and what they teach the athletes.
Now don't get me wrong, there are a ton of coaches out there who run great clubs and programs. Their dedication is incomparable and they touch the lives of so many youth who might not otherwise be able to be involved in a sport. The challenge is that the way we approach shooting, as coaches and as athletes, is focused on the physical and technical aspects of the game. These are only the foundations. Even then, many athletes can make much improvement in their game merely by tuning or adjusting aspects of their physical game. We will return to this topic.
The NRA, CMP, and USAS do cooperate very closely in the area of coach education and training. Club or school money would be well spent to pay for their coaches to take the NRA-CMP-USAS coach certification courses managed by H. Q. Moody and his staff at the NRA. These courses cover shooting and coaching (including the *excellent* ASEP Coaching Principles course). These courses lay an excellent foundation for a coach who wants to improve his or her own "game" as a teacher in the sport and as a teacher of people.
Ultimately, it comes down to the athletes. Even with the best coaching and financial support and time to train, they must put in the time and effort. Not just hard work, but "smart" work.
I have found that athlete motivation is not a problem if they have goals, have the support they need, and... most importantly... can see a path toward reaching their goals. Athlete motivation is a severe problem when they plateau for a lengthy period and when they and their coach are unable to determine what is holding the athlete back. This problem is solved through two things: 1) coach education mentioned above, and 2) a broader approach to the sport.
Those who attended any of the CMP 3P air rifle camps this summer saw a new approach to teaching much of the same material. While still rooted heavily in the physical and technical aspects of the sport (as befitting a beginner/intermediate course), the curriculum also covered mental and emotional aspects of the sport as well. There was also a strong emphasis on "here is what and how" to augment the traditional "this is important" information. This year's revised curriculum is a first step to a broader, more holistic view of what it really takes to shoot well at any level.
A number of folks are looking carefully at how we teach shooting, what we emphasize, and even how we approach the process of learning and improving in this sport. Articles that have appeared in USA Shooting News in the past year (and some articles in previous years) start to hint at some of these things. Recent examples include David Johnson's excellent article on training methods and my article on intensity training, both appearing in the May/June issue. Subsequent writings will go much deeper into the "missing" aspects.
I realize that I'm not being very specific here. This is due to space and time limitations in an already long posting. Athletes and coaches, do you want a hint? Study, learn, and actually USE the concepts and techniques found in "Body, Mind Mastery" by Dan Millman and "Extraordinary Golf" by Fred Shoemaker. Even though our sport is never mentioned once, these two books are all about shooting. Many will look at these two books and reject them as irrelevant resources. Go right ahead and reject them, but that is part of the problem!
--
Let's take a moment to look at each international shooting discipline with respect to the USA.
Running target is now completely removed from the Olympic program. While it is still a World Championship event, I will be surprised if it has many participants in the future.
Shotgun has enjoyed some success the last several years. Yes, this year's Olympics were a bit "down" from previous ones for the USA, although a number of athletes did quite well. Still, there is always room for improvement. I don't actively work with shotgun athletes at this point, but there are still concepts that apply. For example, if you are a shotgun athlete, how do you train? I've been told of some good athletes who only train complete rounds and then only when weather conditions are favorable. If it is too windy, they go play cards instead of shooting when their score might be lower. What do you suppose would happen when these athletes go to a World Cup or World Championships or Olympics and it is a very windy day? That's easy... they will be whipped by athletes who have trained in difficult conditions and who have spent an entire box of shells - or several boxes - shooting one particular target presentation at one station until it is no longer a "trouble spot" in their round. It isn't your practice score average that wins medals, it's your work on the hardest parts of your game. The athlete didn’t “have a bad day”; they were lazy.
Don’t get me wrong; there are plenty of rifle and pistol athletes who have the same problem! Coaches (regardless of discipline), are your “training” sessions almost always full or partial courses of fire for score? Do you ask your athlete “what’s wrong?” when they tear down an aspect of their game to build it up and their score temporarily drops? I would gently suggest a different approach!
Rifle has enjoyed a great deal of success internationally. Our depth at the very highest level isn't what it could be, of course. Again, it is due to cost, programs, grass roots coaching, and how we approach the sport. It is also partly due, at least with the women, because of a number of folks retiring after 1996 and 2000.
Pistol appears to have suffered greatly for some reason. We failed to win more than half of the quota slots available to us. Promising athletes have left the sport in alarming numbers. There is lots of room for improvement. Even many of our best current athletes feel like “something is missing” in their training.
--
We have seen 15 and 17 year olds and even 12 and 13 year olds do things that amaze elite level athletes. Most of the time, these promising young athletes, and others who work hard and eventually catch up to or pass these prodigies, end up not fulfilling their dreams. A few are able to find their way through the maze and realize their goals. For those who fall short, sometimes these problems are individual ones. Sometimes they are external to the athlete. Sometimes, they are systemic.
We can do a lot better! We *must* do a lot better!
As mentioned earlier, a number of folks are looking at this situation with a new perspective and making plans now for 2008 and 2012. It is needed.
--
I realize that this posting has been somewhat rambling and more than a bit disorganized. I have attempted to touch on a number of themes that speak to the question at hand. “Where do we go from here?”
We obviously do not have the capability to “sift” through thousands of candidates. We do not have the plethora of teams that we did decades ago. We do not have what we had or what others have. These are realities that we face. We can either “roll over” and give up, or treat these “obstacles” as nothing more than extra challenges that we have to overcome.
This is ultimately a sport of "Head and Heart". We need to understand that one fact and actually act on it instead of doing the “same old, same old” that we have been doing. This one thing, alone, will pay huge dividends in medals, and more importantly, in athlete fulfillment. Athletes First.
"Feel Center!"
-JP
All very good questions. Personally, I am just starting to get off by duff and move from casual to competitive shooting, so I don't know enough of the current or past atmosphere to really contribute to this conversation other than questions and zeal.
The one thing that I have been having the most trouble finding information on are regional, state and other "lower level" organizations. National and International groups has been easy to find, but when it comes down to the actual starting point I've come across few leads. For somebody like myself who never had the luxury of a High School or Collegiate shooting program, nor the support to get started independantly, where do I begin?
Other than USAS, NRA and CMP, are there any other lower tiers to even look at? Is there any type of organizations that control and promote shooting in the more basic levels, but above that of shooting clubs? Local leagues at the ranges are great, but does anybody make the attempt to link these together into larger groups and develop the sport further?
While I have some experience with trying to organize events and teams during my paintball career, I wouldn't consider myself experienced enough to head anything new in the shooting world, but I would sure as hell be willing to sign my name and do what I can to help. I just need to know which direction to go.
-Hans
The one thing that I have been having the most trouble finding information on are regional, state and other "lower level" organizations. National and International groups has been easy to find, but when it comes down to the actual starting point I've come across few leads. For somebody like myself who never had the luxury of a High School or Collegiate shooting program, nor the support to get started independantly, where do I begin?
Other than USAS, NRA and CMP, are there any other lower tiers to even look at? Is there any type of organizations that control and promote shooting in the more basic levels, but above that of shooting clubs? Local leagues at the ranges are great, but does anybody make the attempt to link these together into larger groups and develop the sport further?
While I have some experience with trying to organize events and teams during my paintball career, I wouldn't consider myself experienced enough to head anything new in the shooting world, but I would sure as hell be willing to sign my name and do what I can to help. I just need to know which direction to go.
-Hans
Hello,
There is a lot more to this topic than meets the eye. It seems to me that the USA is a nation with chronic "white tail fever". People want to hunt with their guns, not shoot for score. I personally know several people who have been around hunting/shooting for their entire lives (over 40+ years) and own literally several dozen high power rifles, shotguns, and muzzle-loaders. These guns get fired a few times per year to sight-in before hunting season and then during a hunt. After that, back in the cabinet they go. I have yet to meet an "average", avid hunter who has ever heard of Anschutz or FWB. These same people believe air rifles are for children and .22's are for plinking. Perhaps I'm hanging with the wrong crowd, but this is what I have experienced in my travels.
The best way to promote target shooting is with your wallet. Either sponsor a scholarship for a deserving high school senior yourself or get a local shooting club to do it. $500 should do the trick - it may not be much but it will buy some books. And with the ever increasing cost of higher education every little bit helps. A successful candidate should: 1) pass some sort of written test, 2) demonstarte proficiency in any recognized shooting event, and 3) submit letters of reference to verify good sportsmanship. The candidates would be evaluated and a winner chosen by a panel. This is the approach I will be taking toward this issue.
Later,
BR
There is a lot more to this topic than meets the eye. It seems to me that the USA is a nation with chronic "white tail fever". People want to hunt with their guns, not shoot for score. I personally know several people who have been around hunting/shooting for their entire lives (over 40+ years) and own literally several dozen high power rifles, shotguns, and muzzle-loaders. These guns get fired a few times per year to sight-in before hunting season and then during a hunt. After that, back in the cabinet they go. I have yet to meet an "average", avid hunter who has ever heard of Anschutz or FWB. These same people believe air rifles are for children and .22's are for plinking. Perhaps I'm hanging with the wrong crowd, but this is what I have experienced in my travels.
The best way to promote target shooting is with your wallet. Either sponsor a scholarship for a deserving high school senior yourself or get a local shooting club to do it. $500 should do the trick - it may not be much but it will buy some books. And with the ever increasing cost of higher education every little bit helps. A successful candidate should: 1) pass some sort of written test, 2) demonstarte proficiency in any recognized shooting event, and 3) submit letters of reference to verify good sportsmanship. The candidates would be evaluated and a winner chosen by a panel. This is the approach I will be taking toward this issue.
Later,
BR
-
sureshot007
- Posts: 93
- Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:24 am
- Location: Rochester, NY
All of these points and suggestions are great, and they need to be addresses - but my question is simple:
How do I - an aspiring shooter - attain my goals that I have already realized and set for myself?
I have a good deal of raw talent, but I don't have any support from anyone else. I can't afford to shoot more than twice a week. I don't have the best equipment available. I do what I can. I shoot every match in my area (sectionals, PTOs, club matches, Empire State Games...), and I am always expanding my travels (Perry, Canadian Airgun Grand Prix, matches in Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Ontario). I am planning a trip for next year to USAS Nationals. But I am a college student at a college that has no shooting program.
So where do I go from here?
Jim Perrin
How do I - an aspiring shooter - attain my goals that I have already realized and set for myself?
I have a good deal of raw talent, but I don't have any support from anyone else. I can't afford to shoot more than twice a week. I don't have the best equipment available. I do what I can. I shoot every match in my area (sectionals, PTOs, club matches, Empire State Games...), and I am always expanding my travels (Perry, Canadian Airgun Grand Prix, matches in Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Ontario). I am planning a trip for next year to USAS Nationals. But I am a college student at a college that has no shooting program.
So where do I go from here?
Jim Perrin
-
WRC177
Sureshot: pick brains of coaches, volunteer or attend any any of the coaching clinics, acquire books and read them over & over, always think about your sport, and dry fire when you can't be at a range. Make the most of the matches you go to, learn from as many people as possible.
Don't fret that as a college student you can't do it all, shooters come in all ages - as long as you have some equipment and talent/desire, you can continue with success as an adult.
Don't fret that as a college student you can't do it all, shooters come in all ages - as long as you have some equipment and talent/desire, you can continue with success as an adult.
-
mikeschroeder
- Posts: 488
- Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:56 am
- Location: Kansas
Hi Bill
The first one in the list made me particularly mad, not at you, but mad all the same.
1. When will we develop a pistol program? There are literally thousands of adults (with pistols) in the US, as we are truly a pro-gun nation. But for some reason, a jr. development program for pistol is absent.
1. ANSWER. If I could find a place to shot air pistol, and a few more 4-H instructors, we'd have a pistol program in Wichita. I have a room, sometimes once a week for Air Rifle. We don't have our own place, and use the County Extension building. If ANYBODY shows up and will pay to rent the place, we're gone. I have a place to shoot outdoor matches (indoor too for that matter), I just don't have a bunch of .22's to loan out. I also don't have a place to keep a bunch of .22's handgun or long.
2. Women's smallbore/air rifle continues to decline. I don't understand why, as we have the talent. Any ideas? Is it the selection process? Is it lack of interest to compete at such a high level?
2. ANSWER. Not here, many of our better shooters are Women. We're starting a nine year old (I think) in the advanced group, but on BB-gun. Perfect position in 3-P.
3. Shotgun has been historically strong, and my guess is that '04 was simply a "hiccup", vs. a systemic problem.
3. ANSWER, Sedgwick County 4-H shotgun is about a year old, and doing pretty good.
4. Running target is now history,
I will do all I can to continur developing juniors, but I think WE need to press our NGBs (USAS, NRA, CMP) to come together and do more, and to listen to us carefully. Likewise, we need to support them.
Summary ANSWER: It would be JUST great if these guys could get together and have ONE (at the most TWO) rulebooks. Don't know what the Order of Demolay (spelling) and the American Legion use, but 4-H creates their own every year. It's not just the big three who are the problem. By the way guys, the stupid rule changing to make it easier for entry level youth to participate just costs us more money. You want more youth, find a way to get us cheaper Anschutz, or better yet, a US made smallbore gun that isn't as dependent on the dollar.
The first one in the list made me particularly mad, not at you, but mad all the same.
1. When will we develop a pistol program? There are literally thousands of adults (with pistols) in the US, as we are truly a pro-gun nation. But for some reason, a jr. development program for pistol is absent.
1. ANSWER. If I could find a place to shot air pistol, and a few more 4-H instructors, we'd have a pistol program in Wichita. I have a room, sometimes once a week for Air Rifle. We don't have our own place, and use the County Extension building. If ANYBODY shows up and will pay to rent the place, we're gone. I have a place to shoot outdoor matches (indoor too for that matter), I just don't have a bunch of .22's to loan out. I also don't have a place to keep a bunch of .22's handgun or long.
2. Women's smallbore/air rifle continues to decline. I don't understand why, as we have the talent. Any ideas? Is it the selection process? Is it lack of interest to compete at such a high level?
2. ANSWER. Not here, many of our better shooters are Women. We're starting a nine year old (I think) in the advanced group, but on BB-gun. Perfect position in 3-P.
3. Shotgun has been historically strong, and my guess is that '04 was simply a "hiccup", vs. a systemic problem.
3. ANSWER, Sedgwick County 4-H shotgun is about a year old, and doing pretty good.
4. Running target is now history,
I will do all I can to continur developing juniors, but I think WE need to press our NGBs (USAS, NRA, CMP) to come together and do more, and to listen to us carefully. Likewise, we need to support them.
Summary ANSWER: It would be JUST great if these guys could get together and have ONE (at the most TWO) rulebooks. Don't know what the Order of Demolay (spelling) and the American Legion use, but 4-H creates their own every year. It's not just the big three who are the problem. By the way guys, the stupid rule changing to make it easier for entry level youth to participate just costs us more money. You want more youth, find a way to get us cheaper Anschutz, or better yet, a US made smallbore gun that isn't as dependent on the dollar.
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WRC177
Improving state of shooting sports in USA
I agree with the point that some aspiring shooters are never told about ALL the great things they can shoot, and the fun stuff they can participate in. Some clubs are just set in their ways as far as only air, or only 4P, etc.
My fear is that we are not getting adults that enjoyed shooting as juniors, into the clubs. We can train juniors until we oldtimers are blue in the face, but if we don't find some returning as adults to give back to the sport, we are stuck.
Don, I definitely agree we need more club matches, and with that, matches that are open to kids & adults alike so they can get used to each other & socialize. That's where the fun comes in. I see the hoopla at local swim meets, ball games, etc and get a bit jealous. Do we need to explore more "fun" matches for the hobbyists to take the bait for more formal matches?
Lunchtime ramblings, hope you get my drift.
Paula, Wheaton Rifle Club.
My fear is that we are not getting adults that enjoyed shooting as juniors, into the clubs. We can train juniors until we oldtimers are blue in the face, but if we don't find some returning as adults to give back to the sport, we are stuck.
Don, I definitely agree we need more club matches, and with that, matches that are open to kids & adults alike so they can get used to each other & socialize. That's where the fun comes in. I see the hoopla at local swim meets, ball games, etc and get a bit jealous. Do we need to explore more "fun" matches for the hobbyists to take the bait for more formal matches?
Lunchtime ramblings, hope you get my drift.
Paula, Wheaton Rifle Club.
creating more competitions
I was wondering how many people live in an area with a lot of people willing to shoot competitivly but don't know it. USAS has a list of members and their zip codes. They should be able to run a simple computer program and find out if they have any clusters of shooters in an area. If you have a location with a good number of shooters try and start a regular match in that area. There are matches in many areas but you may have to drive for hours to get to them. Perhaps USAS could create a sign up sheet on there web site and create some sort of mailing list or search of local members willing to form a local shooting team.
I have also noticed that there is no info on USAS or international shooting at my local ranges. Most of the people going there have never heard of USAS only the NRA. There seems to be an oppurtunity for education at the ranges. I see lots of new shooters at the range all the time. This would be a good time to show them what options they have. I think a nice poster showing the olympic rings and a local contact number would be of a great help. How about creating a packaged kit that could be sent to a range containg a couple of posters, membership applications. etc. There are thousands of ranges out there. Just imagine if only a small percentage of their visitors showed interest in olympic style shooting.
I have also noticed that there is no info on USAS or international shooting at my local ranges. Most of the people going there have never heard of USAS only the NRA. There seems to be an oppurtunity for education at the ranges. I see lots of new shooters at the range all the time. This would be a good time to show them what options they have. I think a nice poster showing the olympic rings and a local contact number would be of a great help. How about creating a packaged kit that could be sent to a range containg a couple of posters, membership applications. etc. There are thousands of ranges out there. Just imagine if only a small percentage of their visitors showed interest in olympic style shooting.
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sureshot007
- Posts: 93
- Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:24 am
- Location: Rochester, NY
I have never doubted having success as an adult in shooting. However, my goal is to make the Olympic team. And this is right on point with the discussion here - how do I do that with no support from organizations such as the NRA or USAS or CMP? USAS would support me as soon as I prove myself to be a competitive shooter, but as was mentioned earlier, how do you prove yourself without the opportunity? It is going to be very difficult for me to make it to USAS Nationals because I take summer classes, and I have to work full time just to make ends meet. How and I supposed to be able to afford a trip to Europe for a World Cup match? Thrine Kane was mentioned earlier in this thread - being an all-american athlete of the year, and on the team at Xavier, and going to Junior Olympics, and being on the development squad - all these things helped her out, but her family still had to make sacrifices in order to afford to send her around the world to shoot those matches. My family has nothing to sacrifice. I am not on an NCAA team. I didn't know about the Junior Olympics when I was eligible. These opportunities are not available to me. So the question remains - what can I do? And I think that is the whole point of this thread - there isn't much, because the infrastructure doesn't exist like it should. The funding also doesn't exist. So the best that anyone can tell me is to "continue to work hard and someday...". Quite frankly, I am started to get sick of hearing that. It doesn't discourage me from working towards my goals, but it would be nice if there was some help along the way.WRC177 wrote:...as long as you have some equipment and talent/desire, you can continue with success as an adult.
I heard that the NRA offers a discount on Perry entry fees for Sanctioned State Championship winners...well, for some reason, NY doesn't want their state championships to be NRA sanctioned. These are some of the steps that would start to work towards a better system in shooter development.
I have ranted a bit much here today, so I will rap it up - my apologies for the long-winded post.
Jim Perrin
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aurorapolice02_11
- Posts: 103
- Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 7:33 am
- Location: Denver, CO
Plenty of opportunity...
There are many ways of making the National Team to receive the funding/coaching that is necessary for the Olympic level...shooters have to be willing to make the sacrifice.
All of the avenues start with a shooter with quality scores. No one is going to fund a shooter who cannot produce scores.
The junior level is easiest. The Junior Olympic program has so many resources it's unbelievable. The next level is collegiate. You can make the National team through Collegiate shooting...that's how I did it. You need to contact the NRA/NCAA ,depending on the discipline, to find out the particulars.
Finally you can make the National team as an "open" shooter. It's tougher, but it can be done. If you make the National team at a selection match, you now need to show the coach(es) that you are worthy of being supported.
For those of you more seasoned shooters that feel it is impossible to make the National team as an adult, look no further than Free Pistol World Record holder Bill Demarest. He made the team at Nationals when it was being held in Chino. He then proved to Erich that he was worthy of support.
The bottom line is how hard are you willing to work to make the team. Of course it's hard to train when you have a job. That's just a matter of scheduling, that can be overcome. You may not have a range or quality coach in your backyard, but it will take a little work to find those if you really want it.
Mike Douglass
All of the avenues start with a shooter with quality scores. No one is going to fund a shooter who cannot produce scores.
The junior level is easiest. The Junior Olympic program has so many resources it's unbelievable. The next level is collegiate. You can make the National team through Collegiate shooting...that's how I did it. You need to contact the NRA/NCAA ,depending on the discipline, to find out the particulars.
Finally you can make the National team as an "open" shooter. It's tougher, but it can be done. If you make the National team at a selection match, you now need to show the coach(es) that you are worthy of being supported.
For those of you more seasoned shooters that feel it is impossible to make the National team as an adult, look no further than Free Pistol World Record holder Bill Demarest. He made the team at Nationals when it was being held in Chino. He then proved to Erich that he was worthy of support.
The bottom line is how hard are you willing to work to make the team. Of course it's hard to train when you have a job. That's just a matter of scheduling, that can be overcome. You may not have a range or quality coach in your backyard, but it will take a little work to find those if you really want it.
Mike Douglass
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Peter Dorn
What Next
As coaches and club shooters we all have a place and a purpose in getting shooters to comps., to hold comps, and to further our sport. To help out even though it can be difficult in this busy world. If all we do is go shoot and go home. Who benefits? If you can't be active because of time, flip a young shooter a couple of buck to help out with ammo or to help fund him for gas, to pay range fees for the night, to get a firearm fixed or set up right, lend equipment if needed or better yet donate it. Do what you can.
Who out there is willing to help Bill out? There has to be someone that has contacts that are close to this young shooter. Make the calls. I am also sure that if you look hard enough, there may even be someone close by that can mentor and help support this shooter and his goals. Mr. Moody, JP, you guys have a lot of contacts, how about making a couple of phone calls on this young mans behalf?
Yea it's tough, but we as a community can make this happen. Bill: Let people on this board know how to contact you. Also approach the school about starting a “CLUB”. You may be surprised. Do research on West Virginia and Alaska and use this as part of your presentation.
I am going to use a phrase and change it a bit from John Kennedy :
Ask not what this sport can do for you. But rather ask what you can do for it!
Yes, I know the difficulties involved in funding and getting the youth to be dedicated. I also know the difficulties of getting adult shooters involved with the young shooters. But if we do not act, and act faithfully and dedicatedly, we will have allowed our love and passion to falter and die. We are the future of this sport. What we do now will impact this sport for decades.
Become dedicated and involved not just a shooter.
Promote your clubs actively. Get the press involved. Make flyers and put them out. Put out press releases. Send articles into shooting sports type magazines, even cross discipline magazines.
The bottom line: If you are waiting for someone else to save your club or to just come and give you something. YOU HAVE LOST ALREADY. Get out there and do it yourself.
BTW: Mike, thanks again for coming out to our club. The kids and the coaches really appreciate it and enjoyed it. And I agree with your statement about how hard you are willing to work. I must add to it though. What are you willing to do and what are you willing to give up in order to achieve your goals?
Peter Dorn
Arlington International Air Gun Club Junior Div.
Head Coach
Who out there is willing to help Bill out? There has to be someone that has contacts that are close to this young shooter. Make the calls. I am also sure that if you look hard enough, there may even be someone close by that can mentor and help support this shooter and his goals. Mr. Moody, JP, you guys have a lot of contacts, how about making a couple of phone calls on this young mans behalf?
Yea it's tough, but we as a community can make this happen. Bill: Let people on this board know how to contact you. Also approach the school about starting a “CLUB”. You may be surprised. Do research on West Virginia and Alaska and use this as part of your presentation.
I am going to use a phrase and change it a bit from John Kennedy :
Ask not what this sport can do for you. But rather ask what you can do for it!
Yes, I know the difficulties involved in funding and getting the youth to be dedicated. I also know the difficulties of getting adult shooters involved with the young shooters. But if we do not act, and act faithfully and dedicatedly, we will have allowed our love and passion to falter and die. We are the future of this sport. What we do now will impact this sport for decades.
Become dedicated and involved not just a shooter.
Promote your clubs actively. Get the press involved. Make flyers and put them out. Put out press releases. Send articles into shooting sports type magazines, even cross discipline magazines.
The bottom line: If you are waiting for someone else to save your club or to just come and give you something. YOU HAVE LOST ALREADY. Get out there and do it yourself.
BTW: Mike, thanks again for coming out to our club. The kids and the coaches really appreciate it and enjoyed it. And I agree with your statement about how hard you are willing to work. I must add to it though. What are you willing to do and what are you willing to give up in order to achieve your goals?
Peter Dorn
Arlington International Air Gun Club Junior Div.
Head Coach
Aspiring Athletes
I have sent email to "sureshot007" to see if we can get him a good coaching contact... hopefully in his area.
Lots of Good Ideas... BUT
All,
I certainly appreciate all of the comments, suggestions, etc. regarding my question. Everyone has good ideas, none of them wrong ("There is more than one way to skin a cat" comes to mind). To all who showed interest, THANKS! You are obviously the ones out there making a difference.
However, I think the problems are deeper than issues like financial support, range availability, our NGBs, coaching, and so on. What we seem to lack is a SYSTEMATIC approach to developing elite athletes. By systematic, I mean one that is proven and methodical, and if followed, will yield consistent results. Other sports, such as swimming, follow a definite route- where most of the development is pushed to the grassroots level. And while shooting is certainly a grassroots thing, I'm not convinced that DEVELOPMENT is consistent... nor is it monitored by the NGBs. OK, I know what you are thinking ... the last thing we want is to have someone dictating to us (the coaches) how to run our clubs. That is not what I am talking about. What I am saying is that our NGB should be working with us much, much closer in developing our clubs, our shooters, and our programs.
But with swimming, where the results are consistent (how many medals for USA?), the high level organization takes a very active role in leading their clubs, directing them, etc. In essence, not only do they set the rules, but they also provide a solid INFRASTRUCTURE.
Now the "nay-sayers" will come along and comment that politics, range closures, etc. all adversely impact our sport, and therefore we shouldn't be compared to a sport like swimming. I say hogwash! How much does it really take to find a 10m range to shoot air rifle? Not too much.
So where is the gap? That question still stands.
Thanks
Bill
I certainly appreciate all of the comments, suggestions, etc. regarding my question. Everyone has good ideas, none of them wrong ("There is more than one way to skin a cat" comes to mind). To all who showed interest, THANKS! You are obviously the ones out there making a difference.
However, I think the problems are deeper than issues like financial support, range availability, our NGBs, coaching, and so on. What we seem to lack is a SYSTEMATIC approach to developing elite athletes. By systematic, I mean one that is proven and methodical, and if followed, will yield consistent results. Other sports, such as swimming, follow a definite route- where most of the development is pushed to the grassroots level. And while shooting is certainly a grassroots thing, I'm not convinced that DEVELOPMENT is consistent... nor is it monitored by the NGBs. OK, I know what you are thinking ... the last thing we want is to have someone dictating to us (the coaches) how to run our clubs. That is not what I am talking about. What I am saying is that our NGB should be working with us much, much closer in developing our clubs, our shooters, and our programs.
But with swimming, where the results are consistent (how many medals for USA?), the high level organization takes a very active role in leading their clubs, directing them, etc. In essence, not only do they set the rules, but they also provide a solid INFRASTRUCTURE.
Now the "nay-sayers" will come along and comment that politics, range closures, etc. all adversely impact our sport, and therefore we shouldn't be compared to a sport like swimming. I say hogwash! How much does it really take to find a 10m range to shoot air rifle? Not too much.
So where is the gap? That question still stands.
Thanks
Bill
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sureshot007
- Posts: 93
- Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:24 am
- Location: Rochester, NY
Bill - there are some differences between shooting sports and other olympic sports, such as swimming and gymnastics, and just aboiut every other sport out there - competitive age and political views.
I know that we have already touched on politics a little earlier in this thread, but there is a greater importance than what was mentioned earlier. Collegiate programs a drying up, and so are high school teams - at an alarming rate. If that isn't due to political pressure and atmosphere, than what is the reason? They always mask it under the guise of budget - but as we all know, in comparision to other sports, once the team has the initial equipment - maintaining it is very inexpensive. I know that locally, a bunch of high schools lost their teams because of "air quality" of the range. My old team stayed open only because my coach knew someone with OSHA that came down to do tests to confirm that there was noting wrong with the range. And after events like Columbine, how do you convince a suburbian area populated mostly by people that have never had contact (or 'good' contact) with firearms, that a rifle team at the high school is a safe thing?
As for my other point - age - those other sports like swimming are dominated by young people, as are most of the physically athletic sports out there. When they are young, all they do is train. And they know that they may only have a limited time to be competitive in their sport. With shooting, it doesn't matter how old you are - so I don't think that there is as much emphesis on developing the young kids at such a fast rate like there is with the other sports. Plus, in other sports, the athletes will also burn out faster. If you were to look up past medal winners from 20+ years ago, they probably aren't still competing - and I would bet that most probably aren't even involved in the sport anymore. When you develop a youth that quickly to be competitive on that level, you run the risk of them never returning the to sport. I know a few people just like that (Thrine Kane is in the process of selling all of her equipment). If they don't do it because they want it, then of course they won't want to do it as they get older.
So our sport is a different game altogether. And I think it will take the efforts of everyone to make it a better system - NGB and grassroots together. Political friendships would also help out alot. I think that if a "Junior Olympics" existed for the adults, it would help to develop those of us that are still dedicated, but out of the age range.
Just my two (or three) cents...
I know that we have already touched on politics a little earlier in this thread, but there is a greater importance than what was mentioned earlier. Collegiate programs a drying up, and so are high school teams - at an alarming rate. If that isn't due to political pressure and atmosphere, than what is the reason? They always mask it under the guise of budget - but as we all know, in comparision to other sports, once the team has the initial equipment - maintaining it is very inexpensive. I know that locally, a bunch of high schools lost their teams because of "air quality" of the range. My old team stayed open only because my coach knew someone with OSHA that came down to do tests to confirm that there was noting wrong with the range. And after events like Columbine, how do you convince a suburbian area populated mostly by people that have never had contact (or 'good' contact) with firearms, that a rifle team at the high school is a safe thing?
As for my other point - age - those other sports like swimming are dominated by young people, as are most of the physically athletic sports out there. When they are young, all they do is train. And they know that they may only have a limited time to be competitive in their sport. With shooting, it doesn't matter how old you are - so I don't think that there is as much emphesis on developing the young kids at such a fast rate like there is with the other sports. Plus, in other sports, the athletes will also burn out faster. If you were to look up past medal winners from 20+ years ago, they probably aren't still competing - and I would bet that most probably aren't even involved in the sport anymore. When you develop a youth that quickly to be competitive on that level, you run the risk of them never returning the to sport. I know a few people just like that (Thrine Kane is in the process of selling all of her equipment). If they don't do it because they want it, then of course they won't want to do it as they get older.
So our sport is a different game altogether. And I think it will take the efforts of everyone to make it a better system - NGB and grassroots together. Political friendships would also help out alot. I think that if a "Junior Olympics" existed for the adults, it would help to develop those of us that are still dedicated, but out of the age range.
Just my two (or three) cents...
Where From Here? Part 2 (way long)
Ok, Bill, now you're talking! And “sureshot007”, you are too!
In my first post, I mentioned "coaching". I suppose I meant it on a number of levels, but didn't speak to all of them. Here are some more thoughts that are more to the points you two raise this evening.
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Shooting has been taught in somewhat similar fashion for the last 50+ years, give or take. To be sure, and to answer the inevitable howls of protest, there have been some changes and some evolution over the years. Some of the physical and technical aspects are actually very good. But nothing revolutionary. Nothing systematic enough. Nothing anywhere deep enough on mental and emotional aspects of the game. Nothing cohesive from beginner to World and Olympic champion. Nothing that breaks through our cultural roadbloacks and gets to the true essence of high level shooting in the face of intense competititive pressure. (Ah, that last one is *very* interesting!)
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This past spring, Dan Durben and I, with input and review from a few others, revamped the CMP 3 position air rifle camp curriculum. It was very good before, certainly; we just took a different approach. We made significant changes to the content and strategy. Coaches and athletes who attended the camps the last two years especially noted the difference. In fact, one of my students marked "Yoda" (yes, some of the kids call me that) on all the slides in her book that had one of my teaching techniques or something that she had heard from me. She also recognized other things that I had passed to her from Dan during our training sessions and discussions. She, and her school team coach, and many others, noted the big changes that Dan had made in the curriculum.
Her coach said that, in addition to teaching WHAT was important, this year they learned WHY it was important, and... best of all in his opinion... HOW to do something about it. Of course, Dan has a wealth of experience in the sport, so he added at least as much as I did (more, obviously!) and he was then able to really make it work by organizing all our thoughts into a solid curriculum. In addition to working on the physical and technical parts of the curriculum, we also added some mental and emotional basics. As much as we did to the curriculum, we only scratched the surface… and still had to cut things out to fit into the 6 days of the camps.
A few of us envision a comprehensive curriculum that works for all levels as mentioned just above. Certainly not a single curriculum, however! Using a single outline, the curriculum "grows" with the level of the athlete. As the level grows, the outline becomes more detailed and there is more depth to the content of the topics. The emphasis must be on those aspects of shooting, training, and competing that actually make a difference. The physical and technical techniques must not be crutches or compensate for weaknesses in training the mental and emotional aspects of the game, they must facilitate training all aspects to levels rarely achieved. It takes a holistic approach, including all aspects of Physical, Technical, Mental ,and Emotional techniques (PTME). More on PTME in a bit.
We spend only 5% of our competition time doing the “PT” part, yet spend 95% to 100% of our training time on those aspects to the exclusion of the “ME” part. It isn’t rocket science (I should know, I was one once upon a time!), but it does take a whole new approach that takes into account what shooting really is and how the human organism works… and how it can perform! We rarely ever tap into much of our power in this sport.
Such a curriculum, available at the true grass roots level, would go a long way to raising the bar in our sport. Yes, there are organizational and financial and political and who knows what other kinds of issues. We can either resign ourselves to defeat, or treat those as just another set of obstacles to overcome. What are we trying to teach the kids and young adults? Maybe we should do as we say and treat those things as “opportunities for growth!” I like your points on this topic, Bill.
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I mentioned “cultural” issues as well. We have a certain “mentality” about shooting and it shapes how we teach it, how we practice, and how we compete. A hint: good shooting isn’t about “fixing” things and getting good tips. Yet, we approach our shooting with the idea that “something is wrong.” This is another whole topic of its own!
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Ok, so as you ask us Bill, “Where is the gap?”
1) What we teach.
2) How we teach it.
3) How we think about shooting.
4) Our understanding of what “causes” good shooting.
5) Our understanding of what good shooting actually is.
6) Lack of a holistic approach. (PTME, and not just “mental game”! Ach!)
7) Lack of understanding how culture adversely affects what we will teach and do.
8) Lack of a solid, readily available curriculum that a coach or parent can use.
9) Lack of an “obvious” path for improving athletes to take to higher levels.
10) Assuming that young athletes are not “ready”.
I’ll stop there. Actually, I’m sure we could expand the list well beyond these items!
There are a few things starting to happen that, if they happen, could bear fruit in the coming year or so. Areas being addressed include full lifecycle curriculum as mentioned above, resources that put some of my vague ramblings above into very clear perspective and that are actionable, emphasis on what and how we train middle school and high school athletes, and ways for juniors (and adults) who can’t quite bridge the gap to a make national team to cross the current chasm much more easily.
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Did you notice me sneak in the comment about younger athletes just above? In many cases, they are very capable. If we train them properly when they are 12, or 10, then when their neurological system catches up at about 13 or 14, they will be amazingly good shooters. Kids like to have fun and nothing is more fun than being really, really good at something. (A theme I touched on earlier in this thread.)
We need to break out of some of our old misconceptions… about young athletes and about shooting itself.
I’ve hear more than one really good pistol shooter (I mean really good!) tell me “The gun never stops.” when they are on aim. I fond that odd, since I barely train and I’ve seen it stop… and go off… and the shot went right in the middle… exactly in the middle. This summer, I saw an 18-year-old girl pick up an air pistol for the first time in her life and start to train. After about 10 air pistol sessions and 2 sport pistol sessions (merely as as familiarization and a change of pace), she went to a PTO, shot an 85, a 90, and then realizing she was doing well, got the “nerves”. She still finished above 320. Oh, and by the way, the gun stopped and went off “by itself” several times. Yeah, this stuff can be taught to beginners… yet some elite level athletes never find this level of performance. The scores aren’t the point. The foundation and approach to it all are the point. There is more… The preceding story is also background for “the rest of the story”.
She was provided high level coaching in a minimalist fashion. That is, certain critical aspects were simply and succinctly explained. She was started on black card targets to build her feel for it all, so that she would recognize when the “feel” in her heart changed with the addition of the bull.. She was allowed to deviate significantly from what the coach would normally have a beginner do, because the coach realized that her training in other areas (gymnastics, dance, swimming, and others) had allowed her to develop a great amount of kinesthetic skills… and because the “style” that she was developing with her pistol shooting was actually quite sound. Although every single training shot was under the close scrutiny of the coach, she was rarely interrupted or corrected… and then usually only when one of the critical foundational issues needed addressing. The coach was learning by watching her, and was allowing her to learn experientially, instead of molding her into a pattern.
In spite of her nervousness before and during the match, which she and the coach had discussed, she thoroughly enjoyed herself. Given her skills, her work ethic, her early success, and her complete enjoyment of the experience, will we see her at Nationals some year? Not likely. She is now off at college, the “mom and dad sports payments plan” is over, adulthood looms, and so on. While a flicker of passion may have been lit, what are the odds that it will grow? Only time will tell.
But wait! There’s more! Just like those crazy television advertisements, even that part of the story has a “rest of the story”. (Yes, we are “stacking” or “layering” here. Please bear with me for a moment.)
Ok, so why were “we” (the sport) so late in identifying this athlete and getting her introduced to the sport? Sadly, “we” were not late in doing so. Just after she turned 14, she was introduced to sporter air rifle along with another friend of hers who is the same age. Both could have been very good athletes in our sport and had that legendary enthusiasm that so many kids that age have. After about 3 or 4 sessions, they both quit. Why? A coach who unwittingly tried to get them to be overnight experts had coached these rank beginners in a manner that overloaded them with information. It totally frustrated them and soured them on the experience so much that it took 4 years to get them to come back.
Now you know… “the rest of the rest of the story.”
This, too, is part of the gap.
So is not knowing how to get an athlete off a plateau… or how to keep them from having one that lasts 2 years. Yes, I said 2 years! You should see them light up when someone shows them how to break *that* cycle. You should see how many we lose when nobody does this. On second thought… sigh.
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Ok, let’s flip this over and find some sunshine and a silver lining.
Imagine a kid who shoots BB gun for a few years and then wins the Daisy / U.S. Jaycee International BB gun tournament. I happen to know 2 kids who have done that. And no, I have never coached BB gun so they weren’t “my” students. One of them has won international medals and is still counting. This story is about the other one.
Imagine that, at the age of 13 and having just entered 8th grade, she started precision air rifle. At the time, she was so petite, that she wasn’t all that much bigger than her FWB P70 Junior air rifle. (Ok, not quite, but you get the point.) Her mother (not a shooter) had coached her through her BB gun years and done so in a very natural manner. This young athlete was given some very simple, clear instruction that covered all the bases (PTME). Three months after taking up air rifle, and during only the second coaching session with her new coach, she was having problems and the groups showed it. After asking her some questions and the two of them having a discussion, the coach had her go and do what she knew to do, She then shot several 5 shot, no scope groups that looked like pellet test targets from a machine rest.
Oh, did I mention this wasn’t prone… it was standing. When she looked at her targets she was quite upset because she knew she had put 5 shots in each bull, but it looked like 4 out of 5 shots had missed the paper! Close examination of the targets proved to her there were multiple hits.
While this was going on, the coach had snuck up behind her and noticed that her long holds, loose hold pattern, and no focus through had been replaced with short holds, almost instantaneous “stopping” of the rifle with instant shot delivery, and great focus through.
This was no fluke. About 3 months later 15 year old on one of those infamous plateaus was shooting 5 shot, no scope groups. After 5 ragged groups, she was interrupted by one of her coaches. After a discussion that was quite similar to the one in the above story, along with some discussion about the emotions that were running, this athlete shot 5 more groups. Yup, pellet test targets! Yup, standing air rifle!
Is the coach that smart? No. Are these athletes that good? Only time will tell. It is the techniques, how they are taught, and how the athlete is taught to approach their shooting that makes the difference and helps plug the gap.
---
Ok, so lightning can strike twice, but it’s still a fluke maybe?
Nope.
Case: 15-year-old female air rifle athlete (different from the one above). Experience in the sport: 18 months. Situation: State high school championship… the individual final… her first “real” final. Start spot: 6th. Nerves? Oh, yeah! In some past years, the top two vying for gold in this event have been National Development Team members. Another year, the 17 year old girl who won shot a 104.9 air rifle final (But that’s another story for another day.) So, this kid is young and inexperienced. Or is she? Action: A short, calm, properly handled conversation in the PTME “tradition” was shared between athlete and coach. Result: She pounded deep tens and took gold. Another kid, hard working and new to PTME moved from 4th to silver in the same final.
Case: 20-year-old female air pistol athlete. Experience in the sport: 5 years including an NCAA championship as a freshman and international (ISSF) competition experience. Situation: 2 months before USAS Nationals, aggressive goals… and confidence has been totally destroyed by multiple causes. (Discussion of the reasons is out of scope to this topic… for now.) Action: In 5 coaching sessions and several solo training sessions, athlete is not only restored to competition form, but the aggressive goals are raised (and are realistic). Athlete is prepared by he coach to make the final (a thought that caused fear when the coach even mentioned it), and is even prepared to start the final in first and keep it for the gold. (One can imagine how carefully this must be handled so that the athlete is prepared to exceed her dreams but not have ant expectations placed on her… not even by the mere mention of the ideas.) Result: Made the final. Started the final… in 1st. Started strong. Felt the nerves… dropped an 8, then a 5 (Yes, a five at nationals. Some watching thought she would quit right there.), yet another 8, then finished strong. She learned a LOT about herself in that final.
Oh, and took home gold.
---
With other high school girls, with college coeds, and even with male left-brained over-analytical college engineering students, PTME has worked quite well. In 1 to 3 days, depending on the athletes and the situation, athletes have experienced totally effortless performance and shooting so easy and fulfilling and fun that they can’t believe it. They also can’t believe their groups. They stop looking in their spotting scope or at the computer screen because they KNOW “it’s another really deep ten.”
PTME is a whole lot more than “just” the Physical, Technical, Mental, and Emotional aspects. It is the specifics. It is how these elements work together. The parts are marginally important… how the parts interrelate and affect each other is the real key! It is breaking down the “culture” barriers to our shooting that are so deeply ingrained within us. It is all of this and more. Even as it is being developed and evolves, athletes who take it to heart are already proving it.
Why don’t we hear more about it and why aren’t more athletes using it?
1) It is under development and doesn’t’ even exist in writing yet… only pieces.
2) Athletes are reluctant to change what they have been doing.
3) Athletes who are on teams and/or competing internationally are often even more reluctant to “break out” to a new level for fear of “breaking” things.
4) Regardless, whatever a coach or athlete is teaching that is new requires constant and gentle reinforcement and encouragement. The tendancy is to revert to familiar patterns, even when they don’t work as well.
5) It takes 21 days for something new to become familiar. Hmmm… two training sessions a week… tha’ts… 11 weeks! How many athletes and coaches do you know who are that patient and open minded… especially when the scores are going down as the athlete’s technique is torn down and rebuilt?
Speaking of which, late in June of 2000, Jamie Beyerle tore down her standing position. Completely. Took it apart, threw it away, and built an entirely new position from the ground up. She loved it. She had 3 weeks until Camp Perry. So, the question was, “Which position do I use at Perry?”
The obvious answer is… the old one. After all, how many times are we told not to change anything before a match? 99% of the time that is exactly the correct answer. But not here. Not with this athlete. Not with the specifics of her old position. Not with the rationale for the new position. It was suggested that she go home and train with the new position for 1 week. Then decide to either revert or, if all was going well, to continue with the new position. If she kept it, she was to do the same decision process at the end of the second week. Then she had one more week with whatever she decided. She kept the new position. How did it work at Perry…land of outrageous winds and fortune? It was the first of her 5 consecutive junior championships in the smallbore 3 position events. I think she plugged a good portion of the gap!
---
From time to time, an athlete is able to get to an elite level, and in some rare cases, become quite dominant for awhile. Through natural talent (just a bit is needed), hard work (not just range time… smart hard work), and any number of other factors, they “discover” how to shoot really well. Sometimes they even do it just on their own. Regardless, it doesn’t have to be so mysterious.
---
Ok, I have written far to long and far more than you wanted to ever read in your life.
A number of folks, out “in the field’ and inside USAS are looking at this very question.
Bill asked a simple question. He, and all of us, knows there are no short, sweet, simple answers. These are some of the areas that are part of the journey toward a solution. There are others that need to be addressed as well, but not in a public forum.
Nothing is ever totally solved… the journey is permanent…but we certainly could do a LOT better!
None of my comments in this or earlier posts is to be construed as criticism in any way shape form or degree by anyone. If you do feel that I am destructively or negatively critical, go look in the mirror, ask yourself some hard questions, be quiet, and leave us alone. The thoughts expressed here are meant to illustrate some facets of the question raised by the original post in this thread and are offered to stimulate constructive and positive change. (Hmmm… Guess I’m getting grumpy in my old age! That grouchy “Guest” who jumped all over the innocent newbie in another thread is another part of the “gap”, Sheesh! Ok, JP… stop, breathe, relax. …Ok, I feel better now!)
I think that Bill has probed to some of the essence of his question. I look forward to the thoughts of other TT’rs in response to his question.
“Feel Center!”
-JP
In my first post, I mentioned "coaching". I suppose I meant it on a number of levels, but didn't speak to all of them. Here are some more thoughts that are more to the points you two raise this evening.
---
Shooting has been taught in somewhat similar fashion for the last 50+ years, give or take. To be sure, and to answer the inevitable howls of protest, there have been some changes and some evolution over the years. Some of the physical and technical aspects are actually very good. But nothing revolutionary. Nothing systematic enough. Nothing anywhere deep enough on mental and emotional aspects of the game. Nothing cohesive from beginner to World and Olympic champion. Nothing that breaks through our cultural roadbloacks and gets to the true essence of high level shooting in the face of intense competititive pressure. (Ah, that last one is *very* interesting!)
---
This past spring, Dan Durben and I, with input and review from a few others, revamped the CMP 3 position air rifle camp curriculum. It was very good before, certainly; we just took a different approach. We made significant changes to the content and strategy. Coaches and athletes who attended the camps the last two years especially noted the difference. In fact, one of my students marked "Yoda" (yes, some of the kids call me that) on all the slides in her book that had one of my teaching techniques or something that she had heard from me. She also recognized other things that I had passed to her from Dan during our training sessions and discussions. She, and her school team coach, and many others, noted the big changes that Dan had made in the curriculum.
Her coach said that, in addition to teaching WHAT was important, this year they learned WHY it was important, and... best of all in his opinion... HOW to do something about it. Of course, Dan has a wealth of experience in the sport, so he added at least as much as I did (more, obviously!) and he was then able to really make it work by organizing all our thoughts into a solid curriculum. In addition to working on the physical and technical parts of the curriculum, we also added some mental and emotional basics. As much as we did to the curriculum, we only scratched the surface… and still had to cut things out to fit into the 6 days of the camps.
A few of us envision a comprehensive curriculum that works for all levels as mentioned just above. Certainly not a single curriculum, however! Using a single outline, the curriculum "grows" with the level of the athlete. As the level grows, the outline becomes more detailed and there is more depth to the content of the topics. The emphasis must be on those aspects of shooting, training, and competing that actually make a difference. The physical and technical techniques must not be crutches or compensate for weaknesses in training the mental and emotional aspects of the game, they must facilitate training all aspects to levels rarely achieved. It takes a holistic approach, including all aspects of Physical, Technical, Mental ,and Emotional techniques (PTME). More on PTME in a bit.
We spend only 5% of our competition time doing the “PT” part, yet spend 95% to 100% of our training time on those aspects to the exclusion of the “ME” part. It isn’t rocket science (I should know, I was one once upon a time!), but it does take a whole new approach that takes into account what shooting really is and how the human organism works… and how it can perform! We rarely ever tap into much of our power in this sport.
Such a curriculum, available at the true grass roots level, would go a long way to raising the bar in our sport. Yes, there are organizational and financial and political and who knows what other kinds of issues. We can either resign ourselves to defeat, or treat those as just another set of obstacles to overcome. What are we trying to teach the kids and young adults? Maybe we should do as we say and treat those things as “opportunities for growth!” I like your points on this topic, Bill.
---
I mentioned “cultural” issues as well. We have a certain “mentality” about shooting and it shapes how we teach it, how we practice, and how we compete. A hint: good shooting isn’t about “fixing” things and getting good tips. Yet, we approach our shooting with the idea that “something is wrong.” This is another whole topic of its own!
---
Ok, so as you ask us Bill, “Where is the gap?”
1) What we teach.
2) How we teach it.
3) How we think about shooting.
4) Our understanding of what “causes” good shooting.
5) Our understanding of what good shooting actually is.
6) Lack of a holistic approach. (PTME, and not just “mental game”! Ach!)
7) Lack of understanding how culture adversely affects what we will teach and do.
8) Lack of a solid, readily available curriculum that a coach or parent can use.
9) Lack of an “obvious” path for improving athletes to take to higher levels.
10) Assuming that young athletes are not “ready”.
I’ll stop there. Actually, I’m sure we could expand the list well beyond these items!
There are a few things starting to happen that, if they happen, could bear fruit in the coming year or so. Areas being addressed include full lifecycle curriculum as mentioned above, resources that put some of my vague ramblings above into very clear perspective and that are actionable, emphasis on what and how we train middle school and high school athletes, and ways for juniors (and adults) who can’t quite bridge the gap to a make national team to cross the current chasm much more easily.
---
Did you notice me sneak in the comment about younger athletes just above? In many cases, they are very capable. If we train them properly when they are 12, or 10, then when their neurological system catches up at about 13 or 14, they will be amazingly good shooters. Kids like to have fun and nothing is more fun than being really, really good at something. (A theme I touched on earlier in this thread.)
We need to break out of some of our old misconceptions… about young athletes and about shooting itself.
I’ve hear more than one really good pistol shooter (I mean really good!) tell me “The gun never stops.” when they are on aim. I fond that odd, since I barely train and I’ve seen it stop… and go off… and the shot went right in the middle… exactly in the middle. This summer, I saw an 18-year-old girl pick up an air pistol for the first time in her life and start to train. After about 10 air pistol sessions and 2 sport pistol sessions (merely as as familiarization and a change of pace), she went to a PTO, shot an 85, a 90, and then realizing she was doing well, got the “nerves”. She still finished above 320. Oh, and by the way, the gun stopped and went off “by itself” several times. Yeah, this stuff can be taught to beginners… yet some elite level athletes never find this level of performance. The scores aren’t the point. The foundation and approach to it all are the point. There is more… The preceding story is also background for “the rest of the story”.
She was provided high level coaching in a minimalist fashion. That is, certain critical aspects were simply and succinctly explained. She was started on black card targets to build her feel for it all, so that she would recognize when the “feel” in her heart changed with the addition of the bull.. She was allowed to deviate significantly from what the coach would normally have a beginner do, because the coach realized that her training in other areas (gymnastics, dance, swimming, and others) had allowed her to develop a great amount of kinesthetic skills… and because the “style” that she was developing with her pistol shooting was actually quite sound. Although every single training shot was under the close scrutiny of the coach, she was rarely interrupted or corrected… and then usually only when one of the critical foundational issues needed addressing. The coach was learning by watching her, and was allowing her to learn experientially, instead of molding her into a pattern.
In spite of her nervousness before and during the match, which she and the coach had discussed, she thoroughly enjoyed herself. Given her skills, her work ethic, her early success, and her complete enjoyment of the experience, will we see her at Nationals some year? Not likely. She is now off at college, the “mom and dad sports payments plan” is over, adulthood looms, and so on. While a flicker of passion may have been lit, what are the odds that it will grow? Only time will tell.
But wait! There’s more! Just like those crazy television advertisements, even that part of the story has a “rest of the story”. (Yes, we are “stacking” or “layering” here. Please bear with me for a moment.)
Ok, so why were “we” (the sport) so late in identifying this athlete and getting her introduced to the sport? Sadly, “we” were not late in doing so. Just after she turned 14, she was introduced to sporter air rifle along with another friend of hers who is the same age. Both could have been very good athletes in our sport and had that legendary enthusiasm that so many kids that age have. After about 3 or 4 sessions, they both quit. Why? A coach who unwittingly tried to get them to be overnight experts had coached these rank beginners in a manner that overloaded them with information. It totally frustrated them and soured them on the experience so much that it took 4 years to get them to come back.
Now you know… “the rest of the rest of the story.”
This, too, is part of the gap.
So is not knowing how to get an athlete off a plateau… or how to keep them from having one that lasts 2 years. Yes, I said 2 years! You should see them light up when someone shows them how to break *that* cycle. You should see how many we lose when nobody does this. On second thought… sigh.
---
Ok, let’s flip this over and find some sunshine and a silver lining.
Imagine a kid who shoots BB gun for a few years and then wins the Daisy / U.S. Jaycee International BB gun tournament. I happen to know 2 kids who have done that. And no, I have never coached BB gun so they weren’t “my” students. One of them has won international medals and is still counting. This story is about the other one.
Imagine that, at the age of 13 and having just entered 8th grade, she started precision air rifle. At the time, she was so petite, that she wasn’t all that much bigger than her FWB P70 Junior air rifle. (Ok, not quite, but you get the point.) Her mother (not a shooter) had coached her through her BB gun years and done so in a very natural manner. This young athlete was given some very simple, clear instruction that covered all the bases (PTME). Three months after taking up air rifle, and during only the second coaching session with her new coach, she was having problems and the groups showed it. After asking her some questions and the two of them having a discussion, the coach had her go and do what she knew to do, She then shot several 5 shot, no scope groups that looked like pellet test targets from a machine rest.
Oh, did I mention this wasn’t prone… it was standing. When she looked at her targets she was quite upset because she knew she had put 5 shots in each bull, but it looked like 4 out of 5 shots had missed the paper! Close examination of the targets proved to her there were multiple hits.
While this was going on, the coach had snuck up behind her and noticed that her long holds, loose hold pattern, and no focus through had been replaced with short holds, almost instantaneous “stopping” of the rifle with instant shot delivery, and great focus through.
This was no fluke. About 3 months later 15 year old on one of those infamous plateaus was shooting 5 shot, no scope groups. After 5 ragged groups, she was interrupted by one of her coaches. After a discussion that was quite similar to the one in the above story, along with some discussion about the emotions that were running, this athlete shot 5 more groups. Yup, pellet test targets! Yup, standing air rifle!
Is the coach that smart? No. Are these athletes that good? Only time will tell. It is the techniques, how they are taught, and how the athlete is taught to approach their shooting that makes the difference and helps plug the gap.
---
Ok, so lightning can strike twice, but it’s still a fluke maybe?
Nope.
Case: 15-year-old female air rifle athlete (different from the one above). Experience in the sport: 18 months. Situation: State high school championship… the individual final… her first “real” final. Start spot: 6th. Nerves? Oh, yeah! In some past years, the top two vying for gold in this event have been National Development Team members. Another year, the 17 year old girl who won shot a 104.9 air rifle final (But that’s another story for another day.) So, this kid is young and inexperienced. Or is she? Action: A short, calm, properly handled conversation in the PTME “tradition” was shared between athlete and coach. Result: She pounded deep tens and took gold. Another kid, hard working and new to PTME moved from 4th to silver in the same final.
Case: 20-year-old female air pistol athlete. Experience in the sport: 5 years including an NCAA championship as a freshman and international (ISSF) competition experience. Situation: 2 months before USAS Nationals, aggressive goals… and confidence has been totally destroyed by multiple causes. (Discussion of the reasons is out of scope to this topic… for now.) Action: In 5 coaching sessions and several solo training sessions, athlete is not only restored to competition form, but the aggressive goals are raised (and are realistic). Athlete is prepared by he coach to make the final (a thought that caused fear when the coach even mentioned it), and is even prepared to start the final in first and keep it for the gold. (One can imagine how carefully this must be handled so that the athlete is prepared to exceed her dreams but not have ant expectations placed on her… not even by the mere mention of the ideas.) Result: Made the final. Started the final… in 1st. Started strong. Felt the nerves… dropped an 8, then a 5 (Yes, a five at nationals. Some watching thought she would quit right there.), yet another 8, then finished strong. She learned a LOT about herself in that final.
Oh, and took home gold.
---
With other high school girls, with college coeds, and even with male left-brained over-analytical college engineering students, PTME has worked quite well. In 1 to 3 days, depending on the athletes and the situation, athletes have experienced totally effortless performance and shooting so easy and fulfilling and fun that they can’t believe it. They also can’t believe their groups. They stop looking in their spotting scope or at the computer screen because they KNOW “it’s another really deep ten.”
PTME is a whole lot more than “just” the Physical, Technical, Mental, and Emotional aspects. It is the specifics. It is how these elements work together. The parts are marginally important… how the parts interrelate and affect each other is the real key! It is breaking down the “culture” barriers to our shooting that are so deeply ingrained within us. It is all of this and more. Even as it is being developed and evolves, athletes who take it to heart are already proving it.
Why don’t we hear more about it and why aren’t more athletes using it?
1) It is under development and doesn’t’ even exist in writing yet… only pieces.
2) Athletes are reluctant to change what they have been doing.
3) Athletes who are on teams and/or competing internationally are often even more reluctant to “break out” to a new level for fear of “breaking” things.
4) Regardless, whatever a coach or athlete is teaching that is new requires constant and gentle reinforcement and encouragement. The tendancy is to revert to familiar patterns, even when they don’t work as well.
5) It takes 21 days for something new to become familiar. Hmmm… two training sessions a week… tha’ts… 11 weeks! How many athletes and coaches do you know who are that patient and open minded… especially when the scores are going down as the athlete’s technique is torn down and rebuilt?
Speaking of which, late in June of 2000, Jamie Beyerle tore down her standing position. Completely. Took it apart, threw it away, and built an entirely new position from the ground up. She loved it. She had 3 weeks until Camp Perry. So, the question was, “Which position do I use at Perry?”
The obvious answer is… the old one. After all, how many times are we told not to change anything before a match? 99% of the time that is exactly the correct answer. But not here. Not with this athlete. Not with the specifics of her old position. Not with the rationale for the new position. It was suggested that she go home and train with the new position for 1 week. Then decide to either revert or, if all was going well, to continue with the new position. If she kept it, she was to do the same decision process at the end of the second week. Then she had one more week with whatever she decided. She kept the new position. How did it work at Perry…land of outrageous winds and fortune? It was the first of her 5 consecutive junior championships in the smallbore 3 position events. I think she plugged a good portion of the gap!
---
From time to time, an athlete is able to get to an elite level, and in some rare cases, become quite dominant for awhile. Through natural talent (just a bit is needed), hard work (not just range time… smart hard work), and any number of other factors, they “discover” how to shoot really well. Sometimes they even do it just on their own. Regardless, it doesn’t have to be so mysterious.
---
Ok, I have written far to long and far more than you wanted to ever read in your life.
A number of folks, out “in the field’ and inside USAS are looking at this very question.
Bill asked a simple question. He, and all of us, knows there are no short, sweet, simple answers. These are some of the areas that are part of the journey toward a solution. There are others that need to be addressed as well, but not in a public forum.
Nothing is ever totally solved… the journey is permanent…but we certainly could do a LOT better!
None of my comments in this or earlier posts is to be construed as criticism in any way shape form or degree by anyone. If you do feel that I am destructively or negatively critical, go look in the mirror, ask yourself some hard questions, be quiet, and leave us alone. The thoughts expressed here are meant to illustrate some facets of the question raised by the original post in this thread and are offered to stimulate constructive and positive change. (Hmmm… Guess I’m getting grumpy in my old age! That grouchy “Guest” who jumped all over the innocent newbie in another thread is another part of the “gap”, Sheesh! Ok, JP… stop, breathe, relax. …Ok, I feel better now!)
I think that Bill has probed to some of the essence of his question. I look forward to the thoughts of other TT’rs in response to his question.
“Feel Center!”
-JP
Excellent post there on coaching JPOC. Took a while to get through it, but I think I see your point in it all.
1. standardized, or at least semi-standardized curriculum
2. proper coaching attitudes
3. keep the main reason why in the program, enjoyment.
4. keep the carrot in front of the donkey, but let him take a bite now and then.
I think thatt concept is something that may be sorely missing and should be made more mainstream. We each eventually develop our own styles and the ergonomics are different from person to person, but I totally agree that a good solid base of WHY as well as HOW is critical before any of that can begin.
The other thing that I would like to see is a better relationship between the different organizations, and a better tiered system to bring shooters from level to level. Good competition is critical to developing skills, but it can be done to the point of overdosing as well. Attainable goals are far more effective than a frustrating goal that is well beyond a persons CURRENT ability. You touched on it a bit too, which I was happy to see, that you need to keep everything within the proper range of the shooters ability. Challenge them to become better and to give them some excitement, but don't frustrate them to the point of leaving a match with a lack of confidence that can cause them to stop shooting completely.
As I have said before, I really am too early into the entire system to understand it all that well, so I am just going from what I can see from my viewpoint down here in the mud ... if I have things wrong, no offense intended, I just haven't seen enough yet.
-Hans
1. standardized, or at least semi-standardized curriculum
2. proper coaching attitudes
3. keep the main reason why in the program, enjoyment.
4. keep the carrot in front of the donkey, but let him take a bite now and then.
I think thatt concept is something that may be sorely missing and should be made more mainstream. We each eventually develop our own styles and the ergonomics are different from person to person, but I totally agree that a good solid base of WHY as well as HOW is critical before any of that can begin.
The other thing that I would like to see is a better relationship between the different organizations, and a better tiered system to bring shooters from level to level. Good competition is critical to developing skills, but it can be done to the point of overdosing as well. Attainable goals are far more effective than a frustrating goal that is well beyond a persons CURRENT ability. You touched on it a bit too, which I was happy to see, that you need to keep everything within the proper range of the shooters ability. Challenge them to become better and to give them some excitement, but don't frustrate them to the point of leaving a match with a lack of confidence that can cause them to stop shooting completely.
As I have said before, I really am too early into the entire system to understand it all that well, so I am just going from what I can see from my viewpoint down here in the mud ... if I have things wrong, no offense intended, I just haven't seen enough yet.
-Hans