TargetTalk

At long last our 499s arrived from Daisy. 5 months later they seem to have produced a lot to fill back orders.

So, now what he asks? They come with the rear micometer sight and sling uninstalled. I figured out the rear sight but where to drill the hole for the sling is up to the user. Trivial issue but before I drill 6 of them in the wrong location, can anyone offer any advice?

And, while I'm at it, is there any other advice that I don't know enough to ask about, pls fill me in. Like, do you guys get smaller inserts up front? Seems like the smallest one is still too big for the bull at 5M.

I know this is not an Olympic event but if we do it right it could lead to an Olympic shooter...


Club update:
This Sunday we had about 10 kids shooting SB. They usually thumb their nose at BB guns and airguns in favor of the 'exciting' powder burners. Well, two kids picked up the BB guns and started hitting the same spot over and over and found it neat. Then a little guy started shooting our 888 off a bag and found he was hitting the same 2" group at 33 feet out! WOW!! I think we had a connection between plinking with a 10/22 to precision shooting with a well sighted, accurate rifle. Maybe there is hope!!

Helo.

I have been coaching BB gun for a while. Where to drill the holes depends on the size of the kid that shoot it.

For the little ones - about the size of their fist (about 2-3") from the end of that stock. The bigger kids the further you drill forward.

I used to drill 2-3 holes about 1" apart and then fit it for whichever kid gets the gun.

Also, we used to short the stock - for the little ones the stock is too long.

The way you determin the right length for the kids is put the stock in the inside bend of the elbow and the pointer finger need to reach the trigger.

For a club, I use a few cuts and then fit them to the kids as needed.

Firts you drill two holes 3" deep from the back into the stock and then using a band saw you make 3 cuts 3/4" apart using a guid you make out of card board to look like the shape of the back of the stock.

Then you use the 3" holes as guides (you screw in a wood screw to add as many of the slices to get the right length. (I write the gun No. and which piece it is so I can fit them back as needed.

Any more questions feel free to ask. (there is a lot more to it then meet the eye)

Moe.

P.S. the guns has a plunger, it last 1 season at the most and can be replaced easly. To make them last as long as possible, make sure that the kids DO NOT use BB that were dropped to the ground. (they all seems to want to do it - you have to explain why not. The BBs get sand on them which scraches the inside of the gun and screws up the plunger.)

Regading the front sights on the 499's. Our club has tried various methods with less than satisfactory results. JB weld may or may not work. We tried to fill the hole and then drill it out to a smaller size, but usually the weld broke loose when the bit was applied. Even if it was successful, centering the new hole proved to be a challenge. Short of locating inserts with smaller holes, I dont't know what else can be done. Good Luck!

We used to make the front sight smaler - NOT ANY MORE!!!!!!!!.
You actually end up seeing the wrong sight picture with too small a hole. (this was explained to me at CMP camp over the summer with a sporter air rifle) My kid who was used to a small peep only had to shoot the bigger one for 15 min and you could not get him to go small size after that

(I used to solder the hole shut using electronics solder and then re drill it)

Start the kids on the largest hole available and when they get older and shoot for a few years you can let them used the smallest peep that come with the gun. IT IS SMALL ENOUGH!. If you use smaller hole, the kids end up holding too long. Instead, work with them on developing their hold , finding their NPA (Natural Point of Aim) correctly and shoot within 3-8 sec.


Moe.

Moe is exactly correct about front apertures... make it big.

Most folks want to make them way too small. Waaaay too small. It's not an issue of visual precision. We aren't machine rests. It's an issue of movement, especially in the standing position and with newer athletes.

We tend to depend too much on the visual aspects at the expense of the much more accurate kinesthetic aspects of delivering the shot. A larger aperture helps facilitate this, and also increases the athlete's confidence since their hold movement isn't accentuated the same way it is with a small aperture. The sights still center up just fine, unless the athlete is "trying" to actively control the hold and "make it perfect". But htat's another topic!

A larger aperture actually works better for the vast majority of athletes. In some cases, we have "cured" athletes of long holds, flutter finger, jerking trigger operation, no follow through, lack of confidence, and other interrelated symptoms after performing an experiement to determine the optimal aperture size for an athlete. It can be that dramatic. Other times, while less dramatic, the athlete still notices that the shooting is easier and more consistent. Yes, there are exceptions. Yes, the effect does vary based on several variables within the individual athlete and their technique.

The bottom line is that in the vast majority of cases, the front aperture is too small for optimal learning and shooting performance.

Oh, and about the "3-8 seconds"... the ideal is 0-3 seconds, but most athletes aren't even ready to shoot when they come on target. Yes, 0-3 seconds. Regardless, after about 6 seconds, the shot is over, as Moe alludes to.

"Feel Center!"

-JP

Wow guys! Thanks!! That is why I like forums. To Moe, thanks for reminding me about stock length. You are right on the money. the stock 499 is too long for many a shooter. And I was worring about the sling swivle. Now you have given me more to worry about.

Cutting the stock. After a 5 month wait and $435 of hard earned contributions, I am hard pressed to take a band saw to these brand new guns. Boy I wish I could scare up some old stocks to cut as you suggest. Any suggestions on how to get some. I have one vinage Red Ryder which was given me. I guess I will cut that one down first. Or, tell me to get over it and start cutting. It's the education, not the $70 BB gun right.......just keep saying it and maybe I can bring myself to getting out the saw.

As for the front sight aperture size. I was shooting prone and noted there was too much white around the bull for my taste but 1) that was an adult hold and 2) I'm not an experienced or trained 3P shooter. I know a little to get them started but will have to enlist other experts to go over the finer details once we get on paper. Don't panic. I do know a little. Had a little guy pick up the BB gun reluctantly b/c after all, BB guns are for kids! He was all over the paper at 5M which I could not believe. I reviewed the technique of aliegning a peep sight and his next 4 shots were bulls eye's!

So....I will leave the aperture size well enough alone for now. I will look into finding some old Daisy butt stocks. Will drill about 3 holes in forearm. And need to start getting up to speed on teaching the sitting position. Can anyone comment on the "roll" role and how to introduce this position to kids? I guess this should be a new topic.

Thanks again...keep the wisdom coming!!

GET OVER IT. start cutting.

I will describe one more time how to do it:

1. Drill 2 holes 3 & 1/2' deep into the stock. these are guids so you can add the pieces back in as the kids grow.

2. mark on a card board the shape of the back of the stock. then, cut it so you can use it as a template.

3. mark on the side of the stock using your card board teplate two lines 1" apart.

4. using a band saw cut the two lines starting from the mark towards the back and cutting again for the second line.

now you have a shorter stock and two pieces, mark them as 1 and 2 and gun No. - store them someware safe - when you need longer stock as the kids grow or you get some older kids, you add them back in one at the time using the holes we drilled as guids and 2 wood screws to keep them together.

I used to scorch the back of the pieces so you have a ruff back. Also I painted them with light brown wood paint to preseve it.

This does not take away from the gun but make it fit the kids better. its very hard to expect the kids to perform if we dont give them the tools they need.

when you have bigger kids you can also start adding weight to the gun.

let me know when you need it and I will write instrucions how to do it.

Moe.

I usually drill the sling swivel hole about 1" back of the front of the fore-end. I have shooters of all sizes in my program and that seems to work the best.
Daisy has instituted MAJOR outsourcing of it's 499 components. Mostly I have seen a general increase in quality over what they were 10 years ago. The newer shot tubes are MUCH better than they were even two years ago. I remember buying them a dozen at a time, cleaning and test firing and sending 8 - 10 of them back to Daisy for replacement. They now cost twice as much as before, but they are so much better that they are worth it.
I got a case of new B-B's from Daisy this year. They were sent in unmarked white milk cartons. I opened a new package of them and started to pick through them and found only a few that had any surface imperfections. Adding to that, I usually mike them and sort them into groups of like sizes. I also had to check them for roundness, tossing out those who were .001" or greater out of round. I checked these new B-B's and not only did they have a great surface finish, but they were about as round as you could expect and nearly all the same size! Way to go Daisy! I hope they keep up this level quality. It sure makes the caoch/gusmith's job a lot easier.