TargetTalk

Watching WC shooting, I am seeing some shooters make several attempts at finding the sweet spot for contact on the trigger.
I then see some of them take up the first stage before lifting the gun. While I can see how this might give you a shorter shot sequence on target, I would think it could be disaster waiting to happen.

How many of you prep the first stage before being on target?

Back in the day I would take up all except the final let-off in Standard Pistol (FAS602) and CentreFire (FAS603) in the Ready position.

I never had a problem shooting worms.

I press first stage on my way down to my aiming area.
But I could do it before the lift if I wanted to. I currently have about 50/50 split between 1st and 2nd stage so I can press with confidence without accidentally shooting a pellet.

brent375hh wrote: ↑Sun Jun 27, 2021 9:41 am Watching WC shooting, I am seeing some shooters make several attempts at finding the sweet spot for contact on the trigger.
I then see some of them take up the first stage before lifting the gun. While I can see how this might give you a shorter shot sequence on target, I would think it could be disaster waiting to happen.

How many of you prep the first stage before being on target?

I have noticed that before and have been doing it time to time.
It already gave rise to couple of misfires :) Though it seems to help.

David Levene wrote: ↑Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:06 am Back in the day I would take up all except the final let-off in Standard Pistol (FAS602) and CentreFire (FAS603) in the Ready position.

I never had a problem shooting worms.

I gave up the practice on "International Day" at one of the late Larry Carter's Lobster Matches. I wonder whether my .32 wadcutter is still lodged in that bench.

brent375hh wrote: ↑Sun Jun 27, 2021 9:41 am Watching WC shooting, I am seeing some shooters make several attempts at finding the sweet spot for contact on the trigger.
I then see some of them take up the first stage before lifting the gun. While I can see how this might give you a shorter shot sequence on target, I would think it could be disaster waiting to happen.

How many of you prep the first stage before being on target?

A collegiate shooter I know was taught to take up the first stage on the bench, at least with air pistol. In his first free pistol match (after graduation), muscle memory was working just fine and he put about 10 shots in to the dirt.

At the college where I help coach, the range has benches that are fixed height, and for all but the tallest shooters, they are pointed at the bench in the ready position. If you train for it, you can keep your finger completely off the trigger in the ready position, and automatically have it come onto the trigger as you start your lift, prep the first stage on the way up, and deliver the shot just fine.

Where you take up trigger pressure and how much will depend a lot on your trigger setup.
A two stage trigger with over 200g on second stage, on the bench would be no problem.
Same with a 1000g single stage trigger, take some pressure on the bench.
A 25g free pistol trigger, no way.
A two stage with only 80g would also be a problem.

JonPersson wrote: ↑Sun Jun 27, 2021 11:49 am I press first stage on my way down to my aiming area.

I do too, when my sights cross down onto the white. I have my balance very lopsided with a hair second stage, so I don't dare do my first stage takeup before I'm on the paper. Never had an unexpected shot though, knock on wood...

David M wrote: ↑Sun Jun 27, 2021 3:00 pm Where you take up trigger pressure and how much will depend a lot on your trigger setup.
A two stage trigger with over 200g on second stage, on the bench would be no problem.
Same with a 1000g single stage trigger, take some pressure on the bench.
A 25g free pistol trigger, no way.
A two stage with only 80g would also be a problem.

My bad, I should have mentioned that I was watching air pistol. Maybe I need to try it. At least in practice it can only cost me 10 points.

In free and air pistol you gain nothing by taking up the first stage. And risk a shot off target.
In the 25m pistol events, it makes sense in the rapid fire (8, 6 nad 4 seconds), in the 20 and 10 seconds in standard pistol, and in the rapid fire stage of centerfire pistol (duel). You gain a little bit of time.
The second stage on the trigger has to have enough weight for you to depress the first stage with confidence. That weight varies from shooter to shooter.

Hope this helps

I do only in the rapid fire disciplines.

McMadCow wrote: ↑Sun Jun 27, 2021 5:21 pm

JonPersson wrote: ↑Sun Jun 27, 2021 11:49 am I press first stage on my way down to my aiming area.

I do too, when my sights cross down onto the white. I have my balance very lopsided with a hair second stage, so I don't dare do my first stage takeup before I'm on the paper. Never had an unexpected shot though, knock on wood...

I’m surprised, McMadCow that you can distinguish between stages if your 2nd stage is really “hair”. It appears that you have effectively set up a single stage trigger. You seem to be using it as such by not taking up any weight until you’re “down onto the white”.

My personal preference is for roughly 50/50 on both AP and 25m pistols; there has to be a clearly distinguishable second stage to make a two-stage trigger effective. I take up the first stage on the rise. I always dry fire a couple of shots during the prep stage of each discipline to remind myself of the balance for the particular pistol I’m shooting. Clearly 50m is single stage at 60-80g.

Bob

As I said, it all depends on your trigger setup.
For Air, 500g 2 stage, 320g/185g and crisp 2nd stage.
Standard pistol, 700g/320g with a slight 2nd stage rolloff.
C/Fire, revolver crisp single stage at 1150g.
Rapid rolloff medium single stroke 1050g.
Free crisp 65g (up to 85g during winter).

BobGee wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:23 pm I’m surprised, McMadCow that you can distinguish between stages if your 2nd stage is really “hair”. It appears that you have effectively set up a single stage trigger. You seem to be using it as such by not taking up any weight until you’re “down onto the white”.

Maybe I should clarify... I still have an obvious "wall" to hold against before the second stage breaks. I also set my first stage travel a little long so as to be an obvious movement. But yes, no trigger pulling until my sights cross the white, and 90% of the work is in the first stage. I have a 500 gram weight to confirm that the combined force keeps me legal.

"I have a 500 gram weight to confirm that the combined force keeps me legal."

Do yourself a favor, and consider making that a 520g weight. I've seen too many good shooters, including a man who traveled over 1000 miles to the match and would have been a finalist, get DQ'ed because their 500g and the judges' 500g didn't exactly correspond. I doubt you'll detect the 2/3 ounce increase, and you just might enjoy the peace of mind.

That's probably a good call. My weight is for calibrating scales so I'm pretty sure it's accurate, but you're probably right that someone else could think the exact same thing. I'll tack on a few coins or something.

"I'll tack on a few coins or something."

Just an assumption: You'll sleep better.

william wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:06 pm "I'll tack on a few coins or something."

Just an assumption: You'll sleep better.

I use coins as extra weight, Aust 20c (11g), 50c coin (15g).
A 20 cent, 50 cent, 70 cent test,
Air 20 cents
Standard/Sport/Centrefire 50 cents
Service/WA1500 70 cents.
This cover any variation of weight, tester and temperature.

McMadCow wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:39 pm That's probably a good call. My weight is for calibrating scales so I'm pretty sure it's accurate, but you're probably right that someone else could think the exact same thing. I'll tack on a few coins or something.

I have mine set at 540-ish. That way I have a some margin.
At Swedish Nationals there was one DQ due to not passing the 500g-test.

There is also a small difference between what you get with a measuring device (spring scale, digital trigger gauge) and a dead weight test. I've checked the calibration of a Lyman digital trigger gauge, and it's within a gram using precision weights. However, even if you set a trigger with it for 5 or 10 grams "margin", lifting a fixed trigger test weight can trip the trigger unless you are VERY careful.

It's also a good idea to check it occasionally even if you aren't competing regularly at a level where they test. Screws can work loose, and springs can weaken over time. Even if you set it with margin, it might not stay there for terribly long. If you check it over time, you will learn how stable it is & how often it needs checking.