TargetTalk

I'm an experienced pistol shooter but only been doing semi serious 10m air pistol for the last couple of years. I've no delusions of making the Olympics but I'd like to get my scores up (don't we all?) Currently averaging low to mid 80's with a personal best of 91. Curious as to how much people practice?

I set up a 10 meter range with lights and a target camera in my kitchen, so I get to practice every day. I do a minimum of 60 shots, but sometimes as many as 120, depending on how I feel. The target camera helps SO MUCH because I get to diagnose every impact.
I also try to do push-ups and grip exercises every day to keep my strength matching my progress. I've bee shooting 10M AP for about 5 years, but only sporadically until this May when I got stuck home in the quarantine. My average right now is about 93, but my biggest issue is fliers hitting the 6 and 7 ring, not my base accuracy. Somehow the center of my target looks pretty damn respectable, but I always lose a few points to one or two shots per target veering off wildly.
My most frequent flier is a high/right 6 or 7, which means I'm heeling into the gun. I can't figure out how I can change it though, so once this lockdown is over I may seek out a coach who can diagnose exactly what's going on. In the meantime, I'm at it every day.

About half of my training time was spent shooting on a blank target.
Helps with the basics.

McMadCow wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:25 pm <snip>
My most frequent flier is a high/right 6 or 7, which means I'm heeling into the gun. I can't figure out how I can change it though, so once this lockdown is over I may seek out a coach who can diagnose exactly what's going on. In the meantime, I'm at it every day.

This is usually from anticipation. If you've shot pistols with recoil, it may be a carry-over from that.

The standard recommended fix is to get a "surprise shot", but they often skip over the part about how to do that...

What I recommend was taught to me by an US AMU coach back in the mid-70's. The secret is to concentrate on an action that will result in the pistol firing, NOT on firing the pistol. If you are thinking about firing the pistol, you have a much better idea of when it's going to fire, and that allows you to anticipate and introduce errors. Instead, think about either constantly increasing pressure on the trigger, or constantly moving the trigger to the rear. Which works best will depend on how your trigger is set up mechanically, but one may also fit more comfortably in your head. Either way, the pistol is going to fire eventually. However, the slight mental separation created by the change in thinking can allow you to get a surprise shot more easily.

You can "practice" a lot, but if you don't train it probably won't make much difference. Setting up a training schedule, what to focus on and goals will take one much further than practicing.

CR

Gwhite wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:47 pm

McMadCow wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:25 pm <snip>
My most frequent flier is a high/right 6 or 7, which means I'm heeling into the gun. I can't figure out how I can change it though, so once this lockdown is over I may seek out a coach who can diagnose exactly what's going on. In the meantime, I'm at it every day.

This is usually from anticipation. If you've shot pistols with recoil, it may be a carry-over from that.

The standard recommended fix is to get a "surprise shot", but they often skip over the part about how to do that...

What I recommend was taught to me by an US AMU coach back in the mid-70's. The secret is to concentrate on an action that will result in the pistol firing, NOT on firing the pistol. If you are thinking about firing the pistol, you have a much better idea of when it's going to fire, and that allows you to anticipate and introduce errors. Instead, think about either constantly increasing pressure on the trigger, or constantly moving the trigger to the rear. Which works best will depend on how your trigger is set up mechanically, but one may also fit more comfortably in your head. Either way, the pistol is going to fire eventually. However, the slight mental separation created by the change in thinking can allow you to get a surprise shot more easily.

I've shot powder burning pistols for about 25 years, so there may be something to that. I wouldn't have expected to anticipate recoil but maybe that muscle memory is pretty burned in by this point.
And thanks for the exercise to try! I'll work on my trigger mechanics and try to "forget" about breaking the shot.

I have bought a Mantisx X2 model, it is just an accelerometer.

People have raved about it. But I found most of its data not useful to me.

However, there is one feature that kept me from returning the unit. It has a timed graph chart of my pre-shot blue line and follow through red line. My follow through line was horrible. If it were not there for me see, I would have never believed my follow through is really that all over the place!

It takes much effort to make that “blue yarn” and ”red yarn” stay put together. Nice to see I am forming “yarn” instead of jumpy line. Nice to see blue yarn and red yarn coming together.

That made my dry fire much, much more bearable. And a bit more fun.

CR10X wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:33 pm You can "practice" a lot, but if you don't train it probably won't make much difference. Setting up a training schedule, what to focus on and goals will take one much further than practicing.

CR

Correct, until you know the difference between "Practice" and "Training", all you do is practice your bad habit's.

David M wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:52 pm About half of my training time was spent shooting on a blank target.
Helps with the basics.

Yes, I should do this more. Always surprised at the smaller groups I shoot when I do

Ade C wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:07 am

David M wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:52 pm About half of my training time was spent shooting on a blank target.
Helps with the basics.

Yes, I should do this more. Always surprised at the smaller groups I shoot when I do

I presume that you've heard the saying "the more I train the luckier I get" ;-)

McMadcow, there is some good advice here. Another thing to look at is your grip fit, especially near the heel of your hand. Perhaps a slightly firmer grip, too.

seamaster wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:38 pm I have bought a Mantisx X2 model, it is just an accelerometer.

People have raved about it. But I found most of its data not useful to me.

However, there is one feature that kept me from returning the unit. It has a timed graph chart of my pre-shot blue line and follow through red line. My follow through line was horrible. If it were not there for me see, I would have never believed my follow through is really that all over the place!

It takes much effort to make that “blue yarn” and ”red yarn” stay put together. Nice to see I am forming “yarn” instead of jumpy line. Nice to see blue yarn and red yarn coming together.

That made my dry fire much, much more bearable. And a bit more fun.

I too think the Mantis is a great dryfire trainer. It's quite sensitive, and does not require any specific orientation or special range setup. You can literally tap your phone, pick up the gun and point it anywhere roughly horizontal, and see how good your triggering and followthrough are.

I practice 5 to 6 days a week. The way I spread it is 3 days of conditioning, 3 or running/swimming/cardio, 5 of technical training and if possible include a competition in those 5.

If you are looking for some exercises, I've compiled a few here: https://www.olympicpistol.com/pistol-ho ... nd-beyond/ There's enough for a few months work :)

McMadCow wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:25 pm I set up a 10 meter range with lights and a target camera in my kitchen, so I get to practice every day. I do a minimum of 60 shots, but sometimes as many as 120, depending on how I feel. The target camera helps SO MUCH because I get to diagnose every impact.

McMadCow:

1. You must have a whopper of kitchen to get set up a 10M range. Good on you.

2. What is the "target camera" you use and how does it work?

Thanks.

Mike

F/V Icy Swan wrote: ↑Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:45 pm

McMadCow wrote: ↑Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:25 pm I set up a 10 meter range with lights and a target camera in my kitchen, so I get to practice every day. I do a minimum of 60 shots, but sometimes as many as 120, depending on how I feel. The target camera helps SO MUCH because I get to diagnose every impact.

McMadCow:

1. You must have a whopper of kitchen to get set up a 10M range. Good on you.

2. What is the "target camera" you use and how does it work?

Thanks.

Mike

Yeah, my kitchen is pretty long. It has a little dining area in combination. Probably about 6-7 meters of the length, and the final bit extends into my living room.

The target camera is something that I "thought up" myself and then realized people on the internet had it figured out already. I've attached a couple of pictures. My pellet trap is on a rolling stand with lights and an old smart phone. The phone is running in IP camera/ONVIF app that uses a security camera protocol to broadcast the camera. In the living room I have an old monitor with a Roku attached to it. There's a Roku channel that receives IP camera feeds to let the user look at security cameras through their TV. The best part about it is that the feed is delayed by 2-3 seconds, so I can take my shot and then look over at the monitor to see the hit happen. Really helpful for diagnosing how I'm making my shots.

I hope you are using a putty trap. Otherwise you are getting lead dust all over your kitchen.

McMadCow,

Thank you. That is very helpful. I like the set up and creativity.

Mike

Seriously? You must not be afraid of adding character to your beautiful wood cabinet, nor spitting out a pellet or two from your tea pot!

seamaster wrote: ↑Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:23 pm Seriously? You must not be afraid of adding character to your beautiful wood cabinet, nor spitting out a pellet or two from your tea pot!

My old housemate once put a wayward pellet into a shelf, but that's been it. My safety record is 100% over 6 years, and if that ever changes I'll reconsider the setup. The range is pointed in the direction it is because windows are the other way. I figure if the worst comes to pass and I put one in the cabinet that sucks, but it's way better than breaking a bay window.

Also, thanks, but my wood cabinets are super old and look like they came from a 70's porno...