TargetTalk

I wonder what most of them use?

Air pistol 10m

There is no reason why one should use a short barrel on the olimpics.
The bigger the sight radius the better.

I certainly don't recall ever seeing a short version in any of the on-line videos of various top level finals. Then again, I wasn't looking specifically for that, so there might have been one or two I missed, but it's definitely rare at the least.

Thank you both for the input

Oddjack, on Long vs. Compact - of the two dozen Men's AP athletes at the Ft. Benning Olympic Trials II, I believe ALL of them were in long barrel.

From Women's AP same event, one of the qualifiers to Tokyo runs a compact pistol, as she is smaller stature.

Hopefully this post address your concern about this being a "low quality forum" - because sometimes it's High-Quality with professional, experienced posts. Other times it's the lowest-of-the-low Dregs of Humanity holding projectile weapons while locked-down during a Chinese-bat-virus inspired Zombie siege.

Hope this helps!

atomicgale wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:13 pm Hopefully this post address your concern about this being a "low quality forum" - because sometimes it's High-Quality with professional, experienced posts. Other times it's the lowest-of-the-low Dregs of Humanity holding projectile weapons while locked-down during a Chinese-bat-virus inspired Zombie siege.

Hats off to that speech!!!!!

Heres some more Low Quality information with respect to Barrel Length.

My FWB P44 has a lot of front sight adjustability. It is adjustable for cant as the sights rotate around the barrel to allow the sights to stand straight up with my hand in a very comfortable position that wouls not have level sights otherwise. It also has 2 different blade positions as well as having the muzzle brake device adjustable along the barrel axis. Combining this adjust-ability along with an adjustable width rear slot will get most people a very solid sight picture. Sight pictures are not dependent only on the distance between the front and rear sights, but also where that relationship starts relative to your eyeball. Think of it as a telescope, because it is. Your eye has a certain focus distance to the rear sight and the front sight needs to be in the correct place to be seen clearly. The slot width acts to alter the focal length by admitting more or less light through the slots between the blade and the rear sight plate. The sizes of the parts will change depending on the distances between the front and rear sights. The answer to what is best works like this...... The optical system created can distinguish a change in any displacement more easily the longer the sighting system is. The longer sight picture pistol will always be better because each angular displacement will be more readily detected by the shooters eye. The argument for the shorter barrel is that the angular displacements of those who cannot hold rock solid are less disturbing with shorter sighting systems and the numbing of the sight system helps those with lesser holds by appearing to be more stable............

spektr wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 6:55 pm The argument for the shorter barrel is that the angular displacements of those who cannot hold rock solid are less disturbing with shorter sighting systems and the numbing of the sight system helps those with lesser holds by appearing to be more stable............

You are correct in your assumptions but, those who can't hold rock solid don't get to shoot at the Olympics ;)

Then let me throw this out to you. Why not a short barreled pistol with a front sight extension that is equivalent to a long barreled gun? I maintain that the shot time with a short gun will be more accurate, but the long sight radius will will make the shooter get better results??

rmca wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:27 pm There is no reason why one should use a short barrel on the olimpics.
The bigger the sight radius the better.

What if I said that the short barrel Morini has the same sight radius as the long barrel.
The short barrel is fitted with a rear sight extension, the Junior and the Long have no extension.
The short barrel has a faster locktime and with less weight out front a CofG closer to the hand.
And "yes" short barrels have been used at the Olympics.

[/quote]
What if I said that the short barrel Morini has the same sight radius as the long barrel.
The short barrel is fitted with a rear sight extension, the Junior and the Long have no extension.
The short barrel has a faster locktime and with less weight out front a CofG closer to the hand.
And "yes" short barrels have been used at the Olympics.
[/quote]

Then I guess we get into the entire discussion of optimum barrel lengths and pellet stabilization, assuming of course that aerodynamic effects of the skirt shape aren't masking everything..... It makes an interesting discussion without many data points for anal engineering types to get too deep too quickly.......

jps2486 wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 7:11 am Then let me throw this out to you. Why not a short barreled pistol with a front sight extension that is equivalent to a long barreled gun? I maintain that the shot time with a short gun will be more accurate, but the long sight radius will will make the shooter get better results??

My theory is that this would probably be the ideal design for a 10m AP. A similar system is used in 10m ARs, with their "bloop tubes."

Regarding the Morini 162 shorts, with their identical sight radius to 162 longs, I think there is some advantage lost in moving the rear sight further backward from the wrist, but I'm not sure.

There are lots of posts on here showing that barrel length has NO effect on accuracy, no matter how twitchy you may be. Sights may be a different story.

[/quote]
Regarding the Morini 162 shorts, with their identical sight radius to 162 longs, I think there is some advantage lost in moving the rear sight further backward from the wrist, but I'm not sure.
[/quote]
Having owned both I can tell you the differences.
I think that having the rear sight further back (similar position to Toz Free pistol) moves the sight closer, (nearly above) the wrist pivot point.
So any sideways wrist movement produces less lateral sight movement.
I liked it so much that I made a rear sight extension and fitted it to my Morini Free Pistol.
The Scatt showed the difference with the aft CofG. The shot trace (hold wobble) was shorter in trace length and higher in frequency.
This showed a tighter hold and group.
But.... there is a downside.
The lighter weight out front gave less dampening effect to induced barrel movement.
Put into simple terms, the shorter barrel helped to pull the 9.8's and 9.9's into the 10 ring, but any trigger errors where pushed out into the 8 ring.
The longer barrel with weights and slower (but longer wobble) shot more 9.8/9.9's but less 8's.
Result....if I made less trigger error's I gained 3-4 points per match, on a bad day I could easily loose 8-10.

David M wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 8:03 am

rmca wrote: ↑Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:27 pm There is no reason why one should use a short barrel on the olimpics.
The bigger the sight radius the better.

What if I said that the short barrel Morini has the same sight radius as the long barrel.
The short barrel is fitted with a rear sight extension, the Junior and the Long have no extension.
The short barrel has a faster locktime and with less weight out front a CofG closer to the hand.
And "yes" short barrels have been used at the Olympics.

Ok, let me refrase, I've never seen a short barrel pistol in a final at the Olympics. (But I haven't seen all the finals...)
While the Morini is the exception, all others have a shorter sight radius.
Again, as you mentioned, the rearward CoG does magnify the shooter's errors.
While accuracy may be the same (I have no data to say different), the pistol has to be shot by a human... And this is my point, a longer pistol is better for the purpose mentioned by the OP.

Hope this helps

The physics says that everything else being roughly equal, the added mass out front provided by a longer pistol will increase the moment of inertia. That means for a given wobble force from the shooter, the pistol will move less. As long as you've trained enough to deal with the added weight and muzzle heavy balance, the more mass you can move forward and the further out you put it, the more stable the pistol will become.

No protests. An objective truth with which we can and must live, or use it.

Here is a typical example of long vs short on a Scatt. Long barrel with 2 barrel weights, longer, slower wobble trace but forgiving to triggered shots due mass dampening. Short barrel with no barrel weight, unforgiving to poor triggering (will easy pull poor shot to 7-8 ring).
Much faster but tighter wobble.
Yes there is 10 years difference but scores still around 575-580, highest scores were shot with the short barrel.
The traces really show the difference.

I would like to see the scatt readout with barrel weights on the short barrel or alternatively the long without weights....apples for apples.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYIyNTbNsHg
world cup 2013 - the winner is using a short 162