TargetTalk

I’ve been shooting for more years than I care to count. Over the years, I shot Bullseye and 10-meter Air Pistol Matches. Even though I no longer compete actively, I still shoot a lot for fun and therapy.

I am now 69 years old, have a tremor in my left hand (Parkinson’s) and now have recently been diagnosed with Carpal Tunnel in my right. The fine muscle control required in shooting has turned out to be a great form of physical therapy in controlling Parkinson’s. Mostly, I just shoot air pistol for practice at my 10-meter home range. It’s very convenient and great practice for my centerfire and rimfire shooting. I go to the local range two to three times a week. Although I don’t do as well as I did when I was younger, I still do OK. Shooting really helps. If only I can get Medicare to pay for my ammunition.

I have no problem with centerfire and rimfire guns, but I have a problem with air pistol.

The match air pistols I shoot have one problem; they must be manually cocked. After a practice session my right-hand hurts from the Carpel Tunnel. I shoot about a tin of pellets every two weeks.

It looks like I need a quality match PCP air pistol. I’ve been thinking of something like a Morini, Hammerli or a Feinwerkbau. Any recommendation? Although my chances for the 2024 Olympics are slim, I want a quality air pistol that in the right hands is worthy of such a venue. Resale value is also important in the event my condition catches up with me.

Also, what do you recommend as an air source given my shooting volume (size tank, pump, etc.)? A PCP gun is new to me.

Thanks!

All the competition brands are good (add to your list Walther, Pardini Steyr, and Matchguns). Your choice will probably depend more on availability. If you can practice a bit before buying it will be very helpful because the feel is very different for different brands.

For the source of air, it depends on budget and the amount of work you want to do each time. The pump will give you a good workout!

As far as air source is concerned, life is short so get a scuba tank. If it's just you shooting air pistol at about a tin every two weeks your initial fill on an 80 foot tank will last a long time. Depending on where you're located, you should be able to find a new scuba tank for around $200, or you can them new on eBay for $199 shipped. Add $15 for the "fill" and you're good to go.

Here's a new tank for $180 shipped. You need a DIN valve (basically a female threaded fitting) and the valve in this tank can be used either as a DIN valve or a "K" valve (which you don't want). This tank has a combo valve that can go both ways.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Luxfer-80-Cubi ... 1634485576

If you look at used tanks, be careful that if you find a really cheap one it may be from pre-1988, and is made of an alloy which had problems. You can't get those filled anywhere since a few exploded years ago and no shops will touch them. Also, if you buy a used one you may need to get both a "hydro test" and a visual inspection, which can add $50 or so (depending on where you live). Hydro test needed every 5 years, visual test annually in order to get refilled. It's pretty much inconceivable that as the sole air pistol shooter on the tank you'd need more than 1 fill a year, which means that every time you fill you'd need a visual inspection (that part's cheap).

You could also look into a CO2 single shot, or for even more fun, a 5 shot repeater like the old Steyr LP-5. A 20 lb bulk CO2 tank lasts FOREVER, So easy to refill the tank. Put it in the freezer, screw the tank onto the bulk tank with the adapter, crack the valve on the bulk tank, done. Make sure that the bulk tank has a siphon feed valve so you feed liquid CO2 into the pistol tank rather than gas.

What MM said.

Also, you can get a top of the line CO2 gun cheap since so many have slurped the PCP Kool-Ade, not to mention gas is MUCH cheaper, safer, and easier to supply.

Greetings Rover,

CO2??? What would Greta Thunberg say?

We need to be more attentive to Climate Change.

Cheers,

Dave

They don't "make" CO2, they recycle it by sucking it off the top of brewery fermenting tanks.


Of course, I don't wish to agitate mentally disturbed Libs by bad-mouthing their brain damaged poster child.

Ooops. Just spotted this today:

"Zero Hedge reports:

A Thursday evening software update at Facebook accidentally allowed anyone to view exactly who is posting under the accounts of public figures, businesses and other entities, according to Wired.

The result? For starters, some 3 million followers of teenage climate activist Greta Thunberg have been reading posts written by her father, Svante Thunberg, and a climate activist in India who serves as a delegate at the UN's Climate Change organization, Adarsh Prathap. Thunberg, Inc. claims Greta is still the one writing the content.

Does anyone actually buy this excuse? It sounds like Greta and her father have just been outed & now they're on damage control. Of course he's the one behind her posts - he's a frickin' delegate at the UN's Climate Change organization. What more do we need to hear?"

"

If you want a 5 shot, get a steyr lp50 and a Hill brand hand pump. I get somewhere around 70 shots from 200 bar to 100 bar then take about 30 pumps with the hill pump to top it off again. Semi automatic is fun. Trigger is fantastic but not as good as single shot. They go for about 1500 Lighty used and the pump is 275 new and you need a few fittings for another 50.

I’m looking for a new gun. It doesn’t appear there are any made for CO2.

I thought about a 5 shot and the LP50 and I’m sure it would be a lot of fun. But I think a single shot is more in line with my goals.

I’m looking at a Feinwerkbau P8x, Morini 162, a Steyr LP2 or Steyr EVO 10. Others?

They all look like they would be more than fine. Preferences and experiences?

Thanks!

To add even more quandary to the fun problem you have, how about a short version of all of the pistols you have mentioned as they are lighter.

I bought an FWB 65 pushing 40 years ago. Had no interest in formal pistol shooting, but wanted the most accurate air pistol I could get, and it was more, or nearly as, powerful than any of the 'sport' pistols available at the time. Plus, the recoiless feature had serious cool appeal.

Never shot it all that much, but dragged it out about a year and half ago after finding some left handed grips for it. In the years between, tremors in my right hand made it practically impossible to shoot a handgun 'normally'.

It was always a bit of a pain to cock, but I would normally tuck the muzzle behind my knee to take the torque off my shooting hand. I didn't figure that would make anyone happy at an actual match, so I put a rubber covered bike hanger hook in a block of wood and clamped it to the bench. Worked fairly well.

I then bought a P8X. Main reasons being I liked the 65, I liked the look of the P8X, and it was available with a left handed grip from stock. I also have a newish 800 Univ rifle, which has an amazing trigger. I was expecting the pistol to be of the same class. I also had the proper fittings to charge an FWB tank with my Hill pump. I'm still not sure what part of that system needs changing between brands.

I haven't been disappointed in the least. The trigger is awesome, the weight and balance of it is far superior to the 65, and the grip is a pretty good fit for me as well. The LH grip on the 65 isn't so good, and neither is the RH grip on my AW93 (I shoot it with a CMM 1911 adapter).

Some of the other pistols are a better deal, coming with 2 tanks for roughly the same price. Some, however, were only available with an electronic trigger, which I didn't want. Or at the least, were only stocked that way with LH grips. Or a 'large' LH grip was the only option.

High Left

It looks like we are following a similar but inverse path. I originally shot left-handed but due to tremors, I now shoot right-handed. I still shoot left eye dominant.

About 35 years ago, I bought a RWs Model 10 with left hand grips. Since I now shoot right-handed, I had right hand grips made for it by Precision Target Pistol Grips. I also have an FAS 6004.

Cocking either gun over just a few dozen shots really tears my wrist up. The soreness lasts for days. No problem shooting my centerfire and rimfire pistols.

I noticed you and JimTMitch use a Hill Pump. I would have thought a hand pump would also be hard on the hands. Is it? How much effort does it take to fill the tank? JimTMitch posts that in 30 pumps he can go from 100, to 200 bar for 70 shots. Is that your experience as well? I would imagine these are not the easiest pumps effort wise.

All the guns I listed would seem to satisfy my goal and are similarly priced. It would seem to comedown to reliability and ease of getting the gun serviced.

Thanks!

The pump isn't all that bad. Maybe a bit more effort than for a road bike inflated to 120 psi. But you can take your time. I've found slow strokes, or at least a pause at the end, more efficient. You want to keep from overheating it, so breaks are mandatory ;-).

An empty tank starts pretty slow, and I think you can go at it for awhile before there's any heat issue. I usually run mine down to 120, or a bit more, and 2 or 3 couple minute sessions will top it off.

Dont know about number of strokes from 100 to 200, but that would depend on the size of the cylinder. I think I get a LOT more than 70 shots from mine. I know the rifle takes a lot longer to fill, but the cylinder is half again longer, and maybe larger in diameter. Its gauge also reads higher than the one on the pump. The pistol seems to be near right on.

Some of the pumping depends on how large & heavy you are. I find that 175 pounds isn't quite enough to get to 200 bar if I just put my weight into it. The last 5 to 10 pumps, I have to kind of throw my body down on the pump to get the last bit done.

Wow, I dont find it that difficult. Maybe a height difference? I'm closing on 61, about 5-8, 170 lbs +-. Not much of an athlete these days either.

I think its the mk 4 pump.

Does the gauge on the cylinder match up with the one on the pump? My rifle cylinder fills easier than the pistol, going by its gauge. It reads 200 with the pump at about 170 or so, from memory. I just stop there. It still has more shots than I need.

Slow (ish) and steady. Trying to force it just creates more resistance. You have to give it a little time to let the air flow into the cylinder. At least that's how it seems to me. If you push it fast and let go as soon as you get to the bottom of the stroke, it will rebound more than if you hold it a second. Or maybe I'm just imagining it.

The cylinder gauges are notoriously inaccurate. My Morini & Steyr cylinders read ~ +/- 20 bar compared to the gauge on the pump. I always go by the pump gauge.

The LP50 being a 5 shot semiautomatic uses some air for things besides pellet propulsion. I also have the compact version, so a short cylinder. I do have to use my weight (150lbs) for the last 5 pumps. But the effort is only in the last 6" of the pump stroke. It's not a big deal filling a pistol cylinder.

Hope this is not taken as rude by you chaps but the ISSF have launched international rules for supported pistol and rifle shooting "aimed" at exactly you chaps that still love everything about shooting but are struggling to hold the pistol to your liking, proper supported rifle and pistol is harder than it looks too!

Here is a link to the rules, it is the fastest growing area of the sport in Germany and is growing fast in other countries too.

https://www.issf-sports.org/getfile.asp ... dition.pdf

As to using a pump don't bother as unless you use a proper water separator, a real one and not the one that the pump comes with you will be pumping moisture big time into your lovely expensive kit, I've seen the mess it makes of the innards of a precision pistol on several occasions and it is not good, buy a cylinder and get it filled with dry air at a dive shop, it is a no brainer.

Thirdwheel

I’m glad the ISSF has accommodations in place to allow individuals with declining capabilities to participate in the shooting sports. Fortunately, at this point, I’m able to shoot pistol with my right hand without support. My left hand is a different matter and the reason I switched hands.

My problem is that the repetitive motion and force required to manually cock an air pistol aggravates Carpal Tunnel in my right hand. Shooting at this point does not. Thank you for providing the information and I certainly don’t view it as rude.

I’m not concerned about the effort required to work a hand pump. I’m 6’2” 190 lbs. and work out daily with weights or aerobics. This is a critical aspect in the treatment of Parkinson’s. The more physical I am, the better I feel. I’ve been very physically active the greater part of my life and the stress of that probably caused the Carpal Tunnel in the first place. I must be careful though not to do anything that causes the Carpal Tunnel to flare up. I’m not sure, without trying the hand pump, if it does that or not.

I was also interested in your comments about moisture not being removed completely with a hand pump. I started reading and watching YouTube videos about hand pumps. I’ve been especially interested in the Hill MK4 pump. It has a moisture trap, but I also read from others a concern about its effectiveness. This is a concern of all hand pumps, not just Hill. It is certainly a factor in choosing my air source.

Choosing a PCP Air Pistol and its support is turning out to be more complex than choosing a centerfire match pistol and developing reloads for it. I know how to do that. But there is enjoyment in the research and learning.

Thank You all. The information is very helpful.