TargetTalk

AP at 10m - I'm stuck at 540 to 550.

Pls. send some suggestions - the Olympics are in July

Tks. Andrew53

Don't worry about the 10's, work on getting rid of the 8's and 7's.
Along with that occasional 6.
That's what kills your score.

Every plateau requires a review of the basics, sometimes a new level of focus and specific training to regain the improvement momentum. The question is, whats the next best part of the process and technique to work on. Look at your shots, groups and scoring in your journal and that might help determine some areas to look at.

For me, at that level it was learning to recognize what the good shots look like as the shot progresses. (Wobble pattern, time to release, full focus on front sight.) Then don't complete the shots that don't look like those. May be the time to review when not to complete the shot.

You can't force a good shot, but you can take too long and create one that's not the best effort. Better to keep the 10 potential points in the gun and start over.

CR

You get to 550 the same way you get to Carnegie Hall.












Practice!

Personal opinion here, but I've been watching precision pistol (bulleye) shooters for about 30 years. Some get better and continue to move up in scores, most simply stagnate at a certain level. The biggest difference seems to be learning the difference between training (learning more) and practicing (justs doing the same thing over and over).

You will probably not get to Carnegie Hall (or past 550) by practicing, unless you alreay have perfect basics and technique. A plateau is a plateau for a reason. The lack of improvement is trying to tell us something, but most people simply don't evaluate and look for the reason. They usually think its a simple matter of shooting more or mentally say "this is all I can do because..."; and never get past that point.

Training is for finding the correct basics and techniques, practice then makes using them more consistent.
Repetition of crap (practice) simply makes more consistent crap.

There needs to be the awareness of the difference between training and practice. Training allows us to focus on a specific issue that might need improvement like grip, trigger control, seeing the front sight, etc.; without worring about the score. Any time we introduce new techniques or change something that seems to show an improvement in the shot process, there can be a period of lower performance as we learn replicate that change consistently. But we need to focus on finding that part we need to improve or change.

Once we determine the specifc change to incorporate, then we transition into "practice" to hopefully make that change consistent. Then we reevalute and start over when we reach the next plateau.

CR

Rover wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:50 pm You get to 550 the same way you get to Carnegie Hall.





Practice!

LOL. True enough. However, one of the really nice things about shooting is going for personal bests regardless of age, ability or disability. Four years ago I was averaging in the mid-520's. Then an old shoulder injury to my left (shooting) shoulder from middle school began to cause problems. Now, it's much more difficult to get to 510. But, I'm still standing and having fun. Life is good regardless of the score.

I highly recommend reading all of these short, but very helpful, On The Firing Line articles by J.P. O'Connor: http://www.pilkguns.com/jparticles/jpcontents.htm

David M wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:36 pm Don't worry about the 10's, work on getting rid of the 8's and 7's.
Along with that occasional 6.
That's what kills your score.

There is a rule in my business...... You can't improve what you can't measure.
Adding to Davids post on eliminating 8s and lower, count tbe target differently. An 8 is 1 point, a 7 is worth 2 etc...... Keep track of non-nines or better and focus on that as the indicator of a good match. All 9s is a 540 and its horrifically difficult to shoot all nines without "accidentally" getting some 10s. Focus on not losing points instead of making them all tens for now.......

• But we need to focus on finding that part we need to improve or change.
  
  Once we determine the specifc change to incorporate, then we transition into "practice" to hopefully make that change consistent. Then we reevalute and start over when we reach the next plateau.

One way to do this is to chart each shot (good or bad) by Hold, Trigger operation, and Mental status. I also add call and the result of the shot.

Make columns for H , T, M, C, and R. For each shot put + or - for the first 3, and the score and location for the final two columns. I just write the number and put a dot beside it in the called location. When finished with your series of shots, you'll find most of the minus signs in one column. That's the problem to start working on.

Be sure to put BOTH the plus signs and the minus signs on the chart. Seeing all those +s reminds you of how much you are doing right. Mental training!

One little thing I like to do (especially in a match), is, after a bad shot go into dry fire mode. After working through your error, resume live firing.

That will definitely help you get past 550.

LOL. True enough. However, one of the really nice things about shooting is going for personal bests regardless of age, ability or disability. Four years ago I was averaging in the mid-520's. Then an old shoulder injury to my left (shooting) shoulder from middle school began to cause problems. Now, it's much more difficult to get to 510. But, I'm still standing and having fun. Life is good regardless of the score.

Great attitude.

David M wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:36 pm Don't worry about the 10's, work on getting rid of the 8's and 7's.
Along with that occasional 6.
That's what kills your score.

Yes, turning 7s and 8s into 9s is less effort than turning 9s into 10s and more productive.

Blank out the 10 with a patch and focus on shooting 9s, a normal distribution will put a good number in the 10 as if by magic.

Rover wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:23 pm One little thing I like to do (especially in a match), is, after a bad shot go into dry fire mode. After working through your error, resume live firing.

Is that allowed under the current rules?

Yes, turning 7s and 8s into 9s is less effort than turning 9s into 10s and more productive.

Blank out the 10 with a patch and focus on shooting 9s, a normal distribution will put a good number in the 10 as if by magic.

More great advice.

David M wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:36 pm Don't worry about the 10's, work on getting rid of the 8's and 7's.
Along with that occasional 6.
That's what kills your score.

David, I have a lot of respect for you; however, in this case, I couldn't disagree more.

Learn to shoot Xs (inner 10s). Shoot them a lot. Shoot one every time you pick up the gun. Shoot more than the other guy.

If you want to break 550, shoot 30 of them in a match.

Shoot Xs, and be focused on the positive thinking that it takes to shoot an X.

Those other shots will happen, and are part of the learning process. Forget them as soon as you have seen them in the scope/monitor and have evaluated them against your shot call.

I moved into the 550s and to a PB 570 just last month. But now have slipped back into the high 50s.
Dryfiring on a regular basis against a blank target and then using a target with the ten ring blacked out and shooting for 9s. Forget about 10s as they will come on there own.

JamesHH wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:03 pm

Rover wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:23 pm One little thing I like to do (especially in a match), is, after a bad shot go into dry fire mode. After working through your error, resume live firing.

Is that allowed under the current rules?

6.11.1.2(b)

yes

john bickar wrote: ↑Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:45 pm David, I have a lot of respect for you; however, in this case, I couldn't disagree more.

Learn to shoot Xs (inner 10s). Shoot them a lot. Shoot one every time you pick up the gun. Shoot more than the other guy.

If you want to break 550, shoot 30 of them in a match.

Shoot Xs, and be focused on the positive thinking that it takes to shoot an X.

Those other shots will happen, and are part of the learning process. Forget them as soon as you have seen them in the scope/monitor and have evaluated them against your shot call.

I'd agree with your argument if you were moving from 570s to 580s, not from 550s to 570s.

People have a physiological limit on the best group they can shoot, for most people its bigger than the X and trying to achieve the impossible causes frustration.
Pulling figures out of the air, if you can shoot in the 550s then maybe your best reasonable group size is around a 9.4
Clearing up the 7s and 8s is more productive than trying for an X every time. Its those little lapses and errors which get you.

David M wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:36 pm Don't worry about the 10's, work on getting rid of the 8's and 7's.
Along with that occasional 6.
That's what kills your score.

As I wrote earlier work on eliminating the low shots.
A typical 550 match might be 20 (10's), 28 (9's), 6 (8's), 2 (7's) and maybe a one (6).
Just change 6 low shots with less 8's and 7's and eliminate the 6 (big error).
Then you have your 560 with about 24 (10's), 33 (9's), 2 (8's) and one (7).
If you can eliminate more error's and keep them all in the 9 ring you are up into high 560's - 570's.
Now is the time to really start working on the group and pull all you shots inside the 9.4 ring and shoot 580's.