TargetTalk

Hi guys,

I'm just wondering if these butt plates are ISSF compatible for air rifles (the small one) and for smallbore rifles (the one with the hook).

Originally, I designed them for Field Target and Hunter Field Target and there are some much wilder configurations that I don't even show to you :-), but maybe these two are within the ISSF rules
I suppose the thumb screws have to be replaced with hex cap bolts but apart from that, is there anything on them that should be modified, in order to make them suitable for ISSF shooters?

Thank you in advance for your ideas!

Without putting a ruler or caliper on them it is tough to know for sure.

As noted, for air rifle, the thumb screws might need to be a little more svelte but overall, my impression is these would be ISSF legal.

'Dude

Ive stared lovingly at your creations for a while maestro. Ive got no doubt that your talents will be welcome here.

If they are compatible you'll probably find a welcome market - most buttplates on the market are insanely expensive, so polymer, 3-D printed (presumably) would be a great option to have out there, particulary for the youth or club market that doesn't typically like to spend as much. As long as the bolt holes are in the right location, slapping one of these on a 1903 would be an easy and huge upgrade from the stock gear.

I’d be interested in a couple if they mounted on 1903’s.

An additional thought:
As discussed in some applications and setups the current thumbscrews might exceed the 30mm to the bore limit so different tightening/securing hardware might be in order.

To expand your market and make this equipment more appealing to broader ISSF discipline shooters, USE METRIC FASTENERS!!! Specifically 5mmX 0.8mm thread, most often with 4mm hex socket heads. There is nothing worse than the screwed up mess you get when you graft stuff that is made with American threads onto a European target rifle. Certainly it works mechanically but during equipment change over you are wasting time fumbling around between standard and metric hex drivers. Some shooters will cheat and find the single driver that works well enough on both then six months later they are dealing with a load of buggered up screw heads that can't be properly tightened. Then suddenly realizing the error of their ways.

Also, don't say things like 'keeping costs down' this is 2018 (almost 2019) metric tooling and fasteners are not notably more expensive than Standard US tooling.

Just my little soapbox but I been doing this longer than most shooters have been alive so I have things to say while on my soapbox.

'Dude

Out of curiosity, how were these made and will the plans be released or the buttplates be for sale once you get beyond the prototype stage?

Hopefully he doesn't mind me sharing his site... He is far beyond prototypes...

https://www.maestro-design.co.uk

justadude wrote: ↑Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:35 pmWithout putting a ruler or caliper on them it is tough to know for sure.

I've read through the ISSF rules and - for me at least - it seems that they are nicely within the limits. But I shoot another discipline and I suppose you know these rules much better, whether there is a trick in them. I attached a photo where you can see a paper with a 1cm raster behind the hooks, maybe this helps:

ProdigalSon wrote: ↑Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:56 pmAs long as the bolt holes are in the right location, slapping one of these on a 1903 would be an easy and huge upgrade from the stock gear.

If you have a look at the last picture, you can see the vertical slots at the back of the base plate. They are designed in a way that any distance between 10 and 100mm (CTC) can be mounted with M4 to M6 size bolts. The two slots at the end allow mounting between 80-100mm, the next pair 60-80mm, then 45-65, 25-45, 10-30.

The square plate on the photos is rather for the metal stocks, but if you can draw around the wooden stock's end then I can design a bespoke base plate that fits to the stock and has the holes in the right place.

craigrb wrote: ↑Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:24 pmI’d be interested in a couple if they mounted on 1903’s.

As to the Anschütz 1903, I've already made a plate for someone for this rifle so the hooks with this adapter plate are available any time.

Just make sure that they are fully ISSF compatible to avoid cutting off parts in the checking room :-)

justadude wrote: ↑Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:44 pmUSE METRIC FASTENERS!!!

This is what I do :-)
All bolts are M3 on the hooks, M4 for the thumb screws (they can be replaced with hex cap bolts as you don't have to adjust them before every shot like we do. The slots on the main rail are 5mm wide so you can use many different bolt: an M5 hex cap bolt sits fine, or an M4 with an M4 and an M5 washer, or if you drill it up a bit, an M6 bolt without washers still can fit there. Also countersung bolts can be used with 2 washers at the head.

brhsfrench wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:17 pmOut of curiosity, how were these made and will the plans be released or the buttplates be for sale once you get beyond the prototype stage?

They are already widely sold and used in the Field Target world, I designed them to that discipline originally.
Just read the new ISSF rules and realised that they might be suitable here, too.

These parts are laser sintered (Nylon powder will be melted together with laser beam) and then dyed black and polished. The dye soaks into the first few tenth mms of the surface so smaller scratches still leave black mark. The only exception is the base plate that I print at home so that I can make any shape within a few days. The bolts are stainless steel with anti-galling treated at the threads. These Nylon parts are very lightweight (they float on the water!), but nearly as strong as aluminium, just a bit more flexible.

Without thumb screws, the smaller butt pad is 186g and the one with the hook is 231g.

For Air Rifle only the first one would be legal. Air Rifles do not allow a hook and maximum depth of 20mm.

For 50m rifles, without picking the rules apart line by line only the top three are legal. The top links cannot project more than 25mm past the deepest part of the plate. Additionally the lower hook cannot extend more than 153mm past the deepest part of the plate with any outside curve measuring not more than 178mm. See 7.4.5.1

Now, those are the rules for straight up ISSF compliance. Looking at these full up, depending on the butt carrier, there may not be enough vertical adjustment on these for them to be useful in 3 position competition, especially for a taller shooter.

As this conversation develops I see you are in the UK and would naturally use metric fasteners. There is a problem in the USA with folks running little machine and production shops using 'standard' US fasteners. (Everything in inches and fractions) The net result is some interesting stuff that is fundamentally crap because it is difficult to use in competition.

'Dude

justadude wrote: ↑Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:47 amFor Air Rifle only the first one would be legal.

Yes I know, I posted this last photo only to see the sizes, but it displays all 6 upper wing variations and all 3 hook types.
I know that only the 'Standard wing' will be ISSF compatible, with the Mini hook for air rifle and with the Short/Long hook for smallbore.

All my fixings are strictly metric, and the connection to the rifle can be done with many type bolts.

That's a good idea with the extended height adjustments, I can make a longer rail if needed, how much adjustment would be useful in your opinion?