TargetTalk

It looks like I am a soon-to-be owner of a lightly-used Izhmash/EAA CM-2 Cadet/Youth model target rifle. I bought it for my son to use for the NRA 4-position smallbore program, until he grows into the Anschutz 54 I purchased for him prematurely! The 10.5lb Anschutz with the long barrel was too much for him to handle, so I'm hoping the 7-8lb Izhmash with a 20" barrel will be much easier to hold.

While I'm waiting for it to arrive, I have a couple questions, if anyone knows the answers:
1. My understanding is that the front sight is not removable. I have read conflicting statements about whether it will accept the same inserts as my 18mm Anschutz sight -- some people claim the required inserts are a hair smaller than standard. Any idea? Maybe it's model-year dependent?
2. Although the 'new' rifle is coming with sights installed, I think I want to just move the rear sight from the Anschutz to the Izhmash. Supposedly they both are 11mm rails, so I think it will mount up, but I don't know if they sit at the same height (or within the range of adjustment). Does anyone know if there is a 'standard' height for peep sights, or if they need to be used as matches sets?

Thanks!
marky-d

1) Front sight is indeed removeable. You remove the screw & warm with a torch & pound it off. You have to warm it to loosen the epoxy that holds it on. After you get it warm/hot, take a 2x4 and tap it off

2) An anschutz sight will not fit that rail.

We use a sight extension tube to mount the front sight. We still use the Izmash sight, and I think with a bit of milling it would take an anschutz sight.

Go here: viewtopic.php?t=22266 and scroll down to see a pic of that.

After this picture was taken I removed the Izmash accessory rail androuted out the stock & installed more common anschutz style rails.
You can buy those at:
http://www.champchoice.com/store/Main.a ... &item=CC14
--or--
http://www.championshooters.com/index.p ... Itemid=111

Thanks for the links! I've read a fair amount on here and RimfireCentral, but I don't think I saw that thread.

As for the front sight, torch + glue + 2x4 = "not removable" for me when it comes to firearms... :)

Can you elaborate why the Anschutz sight won't fit the rail (I didn't see anything about that in the link you posted)? From what I've read, it sounds like the older CM-2s may have used a rear sight mounted on the side of the receiver, but the manual I found for this more recent model listed an "11mm scope rail". Isn't the Anschutz rail 11mm? Is it an issue with the bolt handle hitting the sight?

I do understand that the rear aperture thread is different (as mentioned in the thread), and that's actually why I wanted to move the whole Anschutz sight: so I can use my adjustable aperture. But if the sight doesn't fit directly, I think I can re-tap it or get an adapter.

Thanks again,
marky-d

Removing the sight is really not that hard at all. (5 minutes most)

As for the rear sight .... the Izmash rail is 11mm but it has a lot of buldge in it at the top that interferes with the anschutz sight.
It appears if you mill it down a bit you could do that ... or even mount a daisy sporter sight.

I have a mill, I have the rifles ... don't have time to jump on that project yet.
(I just got 4 Ruger Americans from the NRA for our really young shooters and I have to mull out those stocks for rails first...)

Ah, I see. I guess I'll have to wait until the gun arrives to test it out and decide what direction I want to go. I do have a mill too, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable mounting a rifle up and going to town... :)

Although I probably will mill the stock, if needed, to accept an Anschutz accessory rail.

The Ishmash does have a removable front sight inserts. They are not quite the same size as the anschutz but I think you can make it work.

Not sure why you would replace sights with anschutz sights though... what are you trying to accomplish? The Anschutz sights are probably the same price as a new Ishmash. Ishmash sights are left threaded so up is down and right is left compared to the Ans sights. Click adjustments on the Ishmash is not as fine as the Ans but it's close... 2-3 clicks per ring vs 3-4 clicks per ring on a standard USA-50 target.

My daughter was able to break 500 in 3P metric using a stock Ishmash.

The only reason I removed the front sight was to put on an extension tube for our intermediate shooters.
Years ago, we had one of our shooters fire a 567 at the JOs at the OTC with the gun & STD+ ammo.

Yeah, I was wondering about that. I can deal with resizing inserts (or the sight?) a bit if they don't fit, but I was wondering how much the short barrel affects the sight picture. An extension is probably in order eventually, but that'll be several months down the road.

As for why I wanted to replace the rear sight: I have an adjustable iris on the Anschutz that I would like to be able to use on the CM-2. I figured the easiest solution to that would be to swap the entire sight. The other option is probably to rethread the Izhmash sight for the iris, but that will require some 'ingenuity' because the thread size is not easy to come by.

marky-d

marky-d wrote: I was wondering how much the short barrel affects the sight picture.

marky-d

The shorter barrel (and sight radius) needs a proportionally smaller foresight aperture. But scaling down from the Anschutz isn't hard, just basic division on a calculator.

The shorter barrel may affect the ratio of the sight picture, with the foresight taking up more space, but maybe no different to a 22mm foresight on the Anschutz. That said, the difference is something that you can get used too, especially a junior who isn't set in their ways. More practically the sight radius would affect the focal length, and the standard + 0.5 dioptre may not be right, although I wouldn't expect a junior to be wearing a prescription shooting lens.

The effect of a short barrel is more in aiming precision than sight picture. However with juniors there has to be a trade off for less weight.

Understood, thanks Tim.
I definitely think having a rifle my son can actually lift and hold will help his shooting considerably, even if the sight picture is a little different... :)

Well, the rifle arrived at the FFL yesterday and I was able to look it over for a few minutes, but not much else.

There is one concern: the safety does not appear to operate -- the safety lever does not click into the 'safe' position. Instead, when I push the lever forward, it feels very spongy, and springs back to 'unsafe' immediately. Any ideas what might be the problem? The bolt was removed for shipping -- is it possible to reinsert the bolt in a way to cause this?

I'll need to wait another nine days before I can dig into it further, but I was hoping the internet experts might be able to provide some piece of mind. I'm also looking for help from the Russian .22 guys over on RimfireCentral, but no help so far.

marky-d

Gabe it out of the stock & make sure I the lever is not rubbing.
Not an expert here as we never use the safeties.

Use ECIS to safe & indicate safe in our ranges.

Heh-heh, that's pretty much the same answer I got from RimfireCentral: "I've never used the safety." :)

We use ECIs too, but I still try to get my son in the habit of putting the safety on when not shooting -- I guess from growing up hunting instead of target shooting!

Late to the party, but:

You'll know more when you get the rifle in hand. There might be an adapter to put Annie rear iris on the Ishmash sight, though I saw one on the net somewhere, but ...
Front sights: I was able to locate Izzi-size front inserts in the clear acrylic type. Measure the ones you get, then check around, they exist, but it's been years since I bought my inserts from Mac Tilton, who used to import these rifles but sold his business a few years ago.
Rail: you can mill or router or just take a small 5" circular saw + wood chisel to the existing rail channel to widen it to accept Annie rail. OR, you modify a hand stop/sling point and riser to fit the Izzy rail. The two rails have different cross section. I modified accessories using drawer pull screw assemblies from Home Depot - find the right length, then grind off the sides to make a flat square bottom to fit the channel, use allen to tighten. It was easier on one gun to modify two accessory attachment points; when I had six to change the router/chisel method was better because we already had Annie hand-stops, etc. for all the rifles.

Don't be scared to mill the stock - it's just wood, no big deal, if you can make it go straight past the mill head you're golden. you can mill a small test spot and if wrong either correct it or give up. It's just a Russian rifle that happens to be able to shoot 567 in 3p... our kids are not shooting 500s but we always win the regional match, and usually the Izhmash shooters outscore the Annie shooters, except for the occasional individual who shows up from another county with $15k worth of gear, all Olympic-ready (except for the scores).

I'm pretty sure you can get an adaptor to go from Izhmash to Anschutz from Mark Shepard at Altius guns. Search for Altius on the web, he has a variety of parts for Izhmash.

Well, I'm still waiting to pick the rifle up from the FFL (tomorrow), but last night I machined an adapter to go from the M9.5x1 thread on my Anschutz iris to the M9x1 thread of the Izhmash sight. Altius does indeed have an adapter available, but I didn't feel like spending the $24+shipping. So instead I bought a $16 3/8-26 tap, which is close enough to the M9.5x1, and a lot easier/cheaper to find.

I was tempted to just directly re-thread the Izhmash sight, but I decided I'd try the adapter first. It looks like it's going to work well, and it only adds about 12mm to the length of the sight. Ended up being about $16 for the tap, plus an hour's time and a scrap of stainless rod. Probably not very economical in the long run compared to buying the adapter, but now I have the tap if I ever decide to thread the sight directly.

On a side note, the Anschutz thread (M9.5x1) is also quite close to a 1/8-NPT. I was very close to just machining a 1/8-NPT brass fitting to make my adapter, but the geometry didn't quite work out right for the other side. I thought this info might be useful for someone else though.

Oh, and it also looks like I won't be needing to replace the accessory rail on this rifle either! Turns out the sale included a box of accessories, including a sling, palm rest, and sling attachment, so I don't have to 'adapt' any Anschutz accessories to it (or vice versa). I figure the bonus accessories are a reasonable trade-off for a safety that may not work.... :)

marky-d

Okay, for anyone interested, or maybe this will be useful for someone at a later date....

The front sight on my rifle (a fairly modern Izhmash/EAA CM-2) will accept standard Anschutz inserts. The thread on the retaining 'nut' (for lack of a better term) is different, but the dimensions where the insert goes are identical (17mm outer diameter, down to a 15mm shoulder on the insert).

As for the faulty safety, I figured out what was wrong, but was only able to partially fix it. It appears someone took a file and some pliers to some of the safety parts to essentially disable them in order to adjust the trigger weight down lower. With some hammer-based amateur gunsmithing, I was able to get a mostly-functioning safety, although it's now impossible to achieve a 100% positive block of the trigger. Oh well -- it breaks pretty sweet though...almost identical to my Anschutz! :)

I can't wait to get it sighted in an let my son try it out!

marky-d